AMPONTAN

Japan from the inside out

Wanted men: The Sea Shepherd eco-terrorists

Posted by ampontan on Sunday, September 21, 2008

IT’S ABOUT TIME: The Japanese government, according to this account from UPI, has asked Interpol to issue red arrest warrants for three members of Sea Shepherd, the pirate-wannabe vigilante group that tries to prevent Japanese whaling in the South Pacific every winter. Arrest warrants already are outstanding for them in Japan.

Interpol is not yet prepared to go that far, however, but they did issue a blue notice, which means they are investigating the case further.

Regardless of their ultimate decision, this is a welcome step from Japan for two reasons.

First, it demonstrates that the Japanese government is now willing to take active steps to advance its interests internationally. It is a small sign that the passive, don’t-make-waves mentality of the post-war generation has run its course.

Second, let there be no mistake: By its attitudes and its actions, Sea Shepherd has clearly demonstrated that it refuses to behave as a responsible member of civil society, preferring to resort to the law of the jungle instead. This group has sunk 10 ships around the world, and its leader, Paul Watson, has done jail time in Canada and The Netherlands. It has also been reported that they carry AK-47s on board when they go to sea.

But more than that, Sea Shepherd is a symptom of a more serious illness sweeping the Western world. What too often passes for citizen activism today is in fact the barbarity of a hysterical, unhinged element that self-indulgently takes upon itself the role of judge, jury, and executioner. The structures of civilized society evolved and were created precisely to prevent activity of this sort.

That this disease has reached epidemic proportions in other parts of the world is undeniable from even a dispassionate observation of events in the United States during the past three weeks, to cite just one example.

If Sea Shepherd is ready to stand by its principles, they should have no problem serving time in a Japanese jail for them.

Japan should be commended for doing its part to curb this behavior.

Notes: Sea Shepherd has an annual budget of two million dollars. Most of their budget is supported by contributions from wealthy Hollywood actors, including Martin Sheen, Sean Penn, and William Shatner. Richard Dean Anderson (MacGyver) is (or was) on its Board of Directors. Pierce Brosnan is on its Board of Advisors.

Have you rented or purchased a DVD of one of Pierce Brosnan’s four James Bond movies? If so, you have directly contributed to keeping Sea Shepherd afloat.

103 Responses to “Wanted men: The Sea Shepherd eco-terrorists”

  1. kyklops said

    Have you rented or purchased a DVD of one of Pierce Brosnan’s four James Bond movies? If so, you have directly contributed to keeping Sea Shepherd afloat.

    This works two ways: Have you purchased any product whatsoever from Japan? If so, you have directly contributed to the continued slaughtering of whales.

    This is exactly the anti-whaling approach, and it’s demonstrably more effective than the one you suggest. I have no especial love for whales, but: current methods inflict severe pain on whales; there is absolutely no sense of necessity (food source, etc.) involved in the Japanese whale hunt; a large part of the world (and I would agree, irrationally) believes the whale hunt to be evil; Japan’s interests are not served by killing whales (this is clearly demonstrable by opening any newspaper anywhere).

    What is the point of continuing this? There is no point.

  2. The Animal Liberation Front (ALF) and the Environmental Liberation Front (ELF)in the US are the same. Fringe wackos that resort to terrorist attacks and intimidation. What’s amazing is that these idiots don’t realize they do more harm to their cause by driving away rational people who don’t want to associate with the environmental movement because they don’t want to be part of the same movement as those freaks.

    PETA is another example but not as extreme.

  3. mac said

    Actually, their policies work very well which is why they continue with them and they are widely supported by a very large proportion of normal, reasonable and highly rational people; little old ladies, the young kids that are going to inherit this earth, straights in suits and hot, sexy fashion models.

    Has anyone seen the new Peta ad with S&M celebrity actress Aya Sugimoto? Not bad for 40! I’d rather swing her way rather than with a bunch of grey-suited, lard-ass directors worried that the shareholder are bailing out on them …

    Now and again they step over the line, as we all do (don’t mention the War), but for the most part green activists are highly skilled and disproportionately effective media manipulators creating a widespread public opinion in support of increased animal and environmental protection. They achieve for their causes at the cost of a tiny percentage of what their opponent industries spend on PR far greater successes and are determining the play. I would say that economic damage is a fair line of defense against the economic exploitation of the commonwealth of natural resources.

    Controversy sells … and, quite frankly, if I was to go sailing on pirate ridden waters around Asia, or anywhere in the reach of the French secret service as Greenpeace (will tell you), I would be packing stun grenades to go with them ’47s. You can’t call momma to save you when you are 3,000 miles out to sea.

    No, they are not terrorists, silly. Think up a new word for yourself, not what the NWO would have you say. They are for the most part, fluffy, likable, agit-prop, do-gooder, Green Situationists saving the planet from conscienceless, capitalist, Robber Kings who would have it all a barren, life desert if there as there is a buck in it for them. Definitely the good guys.

    Why would any green movement want turgid (or is that turd-age), skeptical recidivists bobbing around in its sparkling, clean and enthusiastic waters … I mean, if you can’t cope with being where the action is, there you can always puff smoke with the Sierra Club.

  4. mac said

    Oh … excuse me while I terrorise Ampontan for a moment to prove why we need these people. Does anyone you know still eat Spam? I understand it is very popular in Okinawa thanks to GI Joe.

    An investigation of a Hormel pig factory farm in Iowa taped workers; kicking pigs maliciously, beating them with metal rods, jabbing clothespins and fingers into their eyes, slamming piglets against the floor to kill them, spraying paint directly up a sow’s nostrils, repeatedly urinating near crated pigs leaving urine running into the only area where food was dropped and animals could lay their heads and dead piglets’ entrails being removed, ground into a stew and set under heat lamps for bacteria to grow before it was then mixed with feed and fed to the sows …

    And if that is not enough … here is a picture of piglets’ tails and testicles cut off without painkillers in a pile on the shed floor;

    Whose side are you on?

  5. Chris said

    Paul MacCartney also seems to be a fan.

  6. Cat said

    The oceans need to be protected. I don’t see anyone else doing what needs to be done to stop these butchers who prey on innocent sea creatures.

    The Sea Shepherds are doing what needs to be done. If someone was selling crack on the street corner or running over school children with their cars, I would not object to them being arrested or having their vehicles disabled to stop them.

    As far as I’m concerned, Captain Paul Watson and his crew are heroes. The Sea Shepherds have my support.

  7. Rick in Texas said

    @Mac

    There is a big difference in reporting a crime and committing one. It is alleged that members of the Sea Shepard knowingly and willingly endangered the lives of crew members on that whaling ship.

    Oh, and as far as I’m concerned, PETA is a terrorist organization.

    I present Penn and Teller’s BullSh!t on PETA:
    Part 1 – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0exLa6saV9o
    Part 2 – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENAJ6-X7zvY
    Part 3 – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gpEyHWXqQ4

  8. nate said

    I can’t argue with the general thrust of this post, but your abuse of the word “directly” is a touch absurd.
    I’d have torouble thinking up a better example of “indirectness”. Video renters are no closer to this business than US taxpayers are to what any given US soldier does on his off duty time.

    As for the whales, I just can’t figure out why they’re such a big deal for either side. No one in japan likes whale. And no self respecting vegetarian should so dramatically favor a cute ab
    Animal over it’s less protected cousins.

  9. mac said

    Please look up the definition for despoil so you understand what I am talking about here.

    I suggest you all read “Folk Devils and Moral Panics” by Stanley Cohen so as you can gain some insight on how your mind and thoughts are being manipulated and to recognize what part you are playing in a regular precondition social reaction. “Moral panics … deviancy amplification … moral indignation”, see below. Guys, you are on autopilot here, chirping like parrots, and not thinking at all.

    I also suspect you wont be able to read it as part of your social and mental precondition is fear and moral outrage at having a mirror turned back on you so that you can look at yourself.

    I have actually met some of the PETA. I would describe them as a collection of pretty damned cutsie chicks supported by some sweet dedicated middle aged old ladies into creating valuable social theatre. If you are afraid them … clown … you have some psychological issues.

    The problem is “The Law” is not finished. Nor is it complete. Nor is it unbiased. And worse that that, since it inception to protect the property of the ruling classes, it has been corrupted even further to do just that; value and protect the property and wealth of the ruling class over all other principles. Animals, our shared eco-system upon which we all depend, have very little to no legal representation within either that system, our economics nor the political one they have bought.

    The crimes, cruelties and unlimited environmental despoliation of the ruling classes, be they the capitalist corporations these days, are protected … whilst any other than submissive within the underclasses is violently punished under the guise of “justice” whether third world style (literally) or first world style (financial damage via lawyers).

    A moral panic is sporadic episode which, as it occurs, subjects society to bouts of worry about the values and principles which society upholds which may be in jeopardy. In your case, the principle of conscienceless, untrammeled capitalist liberty to exploit living beings and the environment). “Folk Devils” are described as;
    a condition, episode, person or group of persons [who] become defined as a threat to [those] societal values and interests … Those who start the panic when they fear a threat to prevailing cultural values, are known by researchers as “moral entrepreneurs”, while those targeted are known as a “folk devil.” [Cohen, 1987]

    More moral panics will be generated and other, as yet nameless, folk devils will be created. This is not because such developments have an inexorable inner logic, but because our society as present structured will continue to generate problems for some of its members…and then condemn whatever solution these groups find … They are byproducts of controversies that produce arguments and social tension, or aren’t easily discussed as some of these moral panics are taboo to many people. [Cohen 1987]

    Just think of them as middle aged society, threatened, and having hot flushed in envy of the rising libidos of young people expressing themselves to create the world culture they want (one with less suffering and less despoliation).

    What are you for? More suffering and less despoliation in the name of financial returns … or less suffering and less despoliation and a slight change in the financial status quo.

    These people are the moral warriors, albeit imperfect, that our leading our civilisation out of its dark age.

  10. mac said

    And just in case you think those wonderful men and their polished corporate PR are law abiding, go back and review what Roosevelt called the “malefactors of great wealth”.

    By comparison, the actions of PETA, Sea Shepard et al are like mosquitos hitting the windshields of their semis as they roll across the prairies (or oceans), loaded with stolen goods.

  11. fh said

    So how do we go about “protecting the oceans” and “representing the animals”? By consciously endangering the lives of other human beings. Yes, that sounds quite enlightened indeed. You want to have humans and animals treated equally, yet these kinds of actions clearly demonstrate a willingness to put the lives of animals ahead of humans — ergo the problems we face today can be solved by getting rid of (some number of) people. Sounds like like the thoughts of some of history’s less popular figures.

    The argument about (saving the environment from) the greedy corporation is irrelevent, nevermind the minefield of contradictions within the argument itself. I would explain why in detail, but I will put it in this way:

    Blaming whalers or corporate bigwigs is only the simple answer, the easy way out. The real answer is to look at the global forces that are causing humanity to push the environment to its limits. However, by continually using fishermen and fatcats as the lynchpin of environmentalist cause, you make the “extremist” label inescapable which only hurts your cause. Here’s a reality check: simply getting rid of a few groups of people will not “save” the environment. And you’re fooling nobody but yourself if you believe the world is really that simple.

    To be a real leader capable of effecting positive change requires a deep understanding of the world (and not just that “it’s full of lies”); resorting to violent tactics in no way demonstrates that capacity.

  12. Bender said

    Google “Paul Watson” “white supremacist” “anti-immigrant” “Sierra Club”…I for one have serious doubts about the guy.

  13. Ken said

    I wonder if the US does not arrest the suspects regardless of criminal delivery treaty with Japan.

  14. Taintus said

    Check out the work of Arne Kalland for a perspective on the cultural dimensions of whaling.

    This is a tough issue because it involves issues of resource rights, cultural traditions, and local autonomy. Think, for example, about Sea Shepherd tactics in terms of the few engagements they have had with the Makah, an indigenous group with homelands on Washington’s Olympic Peninsula.

    Check out my blog: In the Pines for more about issues surrounding local socio-ecological systems.

  15. mac said

    I have a feeling that Ampontan only puts up Whaling stories comments are slow and discussion ebbing because it is always assured of rising temperatures. These actions are not violent, they are defensive. No one is forcing the whalers to go blasting the brains out of whales, leaving them to die over hours or cutting them up as they are still alive.

    fh, I have gone into this in more detail elsewhere here. Personally, I am not particularly involved in the whale issue but I can see clearly that it has an emblematic value far greater than its actual important for the, let’s say, Greens or Animal Rights campaigners.

    The whale issue has become the trench war of the environmental movement and I would say one of the reasons for this is that, on the basis of very limited resources, it is, and is likely to be, winnable in a way that taking on the beef industry is not yet. (Other folks are working at the exploitative beef industry by way of vegetarianism, veganism, fairtrade and organics).

    But do not for one minute think it is the end … its only one of the beginning points.

    Let us look at your language though … we are not talking about “fishermen” we are talking about multi-million dollar industrial whaling corporations. Factories owners with shareholders at sea. None of the animal rights organizations are targeting humans as victims. It would be a lot easier to whack them as they left their homes (as some vivisectionists have been) than chase them to the Antarctic… but these groups are not stupid. I would argue that the industrial whalers are not fully evolved as human yet.

    Within the current legal, economical and global political systems, the right to cause terminal damage and exploitation is protected at law and there is microscopically little to no recourse for environmental or species damage. I would go as far as to say, the game has been designed in this way. Causing economical damage is the only way to oppose the conscienceless exploiters because it directly targets their only interests and greatest vulnerability.

    Its all about money … nothing else … so take out their market at one end and their means of production on the other and they are sunk. Its simple. Japan loses 10,000 times more than it gains from pushing this business. If it had any sense, it would turn around on its heals, just as it did after WWII, and become the leading whale tourism country, it would gain much more.

    There is no need for it. Why should the greed of a few be allowed to screw us the environment for us all, for all time?

    I do not know how many of you are aware of this but a few years ago (before the Gulf this way), a decision was made in governmental and intelligence communities to deliberately put out propaganda equating environmentalists with terrorists in order to bring out restrictive changes in the law and this was rolled internationally because it was successful and appealing to control freaks. “Something had to be done” about those pesky hippies that were actually starting to make a difference and, of course, for the intelligence/security community it was great because a new enemy also meant a new budget … and this enemy was such a fluffy, soft touch in comparison to the usual paramilitary targets.

    So when I read individuals with no real experience or understanding of the issue spouting that very same language, I find it hysterical to a ‘no brain’ in action parroting what they have been programmed to.

    As to Paul Watson being anti-immigration, what he actually believes is written here; http://www.seashepherd.org/news/media_040406_1.html it sounds perfectly reasonable.

    BTW, the usual rules of the flame state that whoever ‘reduction ad hitlerum’ first loses the game. What success on earth would Peta or Greenpeace have proposing an alternative global economics? Nah … just remove the financial inventive to do what they are doing, which what these groups are doing.

  16. Bruce Smith said

    Mac, So according to you people like me who disagree with Sea-Shepherd and PETA are on auto-pilot, but people like you who agree with Sea-Shepherd and PETA are not on auto-pilot ? How convenient.

  17. Get a Job, Son! said

    Mac… Is there a huge difference between whaling and other fishing…?
    To use your pararmeters…
    “whalers … go blasting the brains out of whales, leaving them to die over hours or cutting them up as they are still alive”
    … and other commercial fishing uses hooks or net to catch, and the fish then thrash about and die slowly over hours, or some are caught, brought to land then cut up alive.

    “we are not talking about “fishermen” we are talking about multi-million dollar industrial whaling corporations. Factories owners with shareholders at sea”
    … as opposed to the factories on land that process huge quantities of other fish, owned by corporations. Thinking logisitcally, the factory vessels make sense when handling larger fish and longer journeys.

    Assuming that the whales caught are not endangered (and I believe Minke whales are not) then there is no real difference to my eye. Of course, comments about how intrlligent and beautiful whales are will not be considered, as they are no more intelligent than most other animals on the ‘menu’. Beauty is also emotional, and therefore not valid.

    Here is a final comment on the Sea-Shepards actions…
    Consider if I live next door you, and your car makes too much noise and disturbs my peace. I talk to you and you refuse to change… you love your noisy car!. I talk to the authorities, and there is little they can do given the current laws.
    Using Sea-shepard logic, I am freely able to cut your break cable so that next time you drive, you crash and injure youself/die.
    This ‘activist’ approach is what Watson is trying, and is the real barbarism in this issue.

  18. fh said

    Mac:
    No one is trying to censor the message of environmental conservation. But certain actions simply cannot be justified no matter the cause. If we’re really talking about multi-million dollar operations, then why do these activists attack the “fishermen”? After all, wrecking a boat isn’t going to do any good if the corporation is just going to buy a new one, right? Don’t you think their efforts would be better spent towards legislative action, in order to shut down these businesses from a legal standpoint?

    Again, the problem isn’t what these people are trying to do, it’s how they go about doing it. They refuse to work with others and instead make up their own rules and willingly put other people’s lives in danger under justification of their own unilateral standards. In any other situation that sort of behavior would be considered illegal; there’s no reason why this should be treated differently.

    For your own cause, you should learn to accept criticism where it’s due. Stand by your message, but admit that the violent actions of these activists is not appropriate. If you can’t do that, no one will ever take you seriously.

  19. mac said

    The debate is equivalent to that brought up by the “unlawful, unilateralist, violent … blah blah blah” Abolitionist movement when it opposed slavery. You find yourself in exactly the same position socially that opposed the anti-slavery movement and use the same rhetorical forms. “My goodness, what the world coming to if a gentleman and shareholder cannot whip his own black or harpoon his own whale!”.

    • There was no “law” to stop us buying black men, therefore it was the abolitionist who were illegal by interfering with another gentleman’s “property”.
    • There is no “law” (yet) to stop us slaughter wild whales, therefore it was the environmentalists who are illegal by interfering with another gentleman’s profit margin.

    It was the “unilateral” direction actions of the campaigners, and numerous others, that brought about protective laws to stop the abuse.

    Its a balance act. If you actually knew anything of “movement” as a whole, rather than depending on jingoist tabloids who are fed what to write for your opinion forming data, you would know that for every direct action group, there are several quiet, tireless lobbyist/research/legislative groups, e.g. just as PETA grabs the headlines in the last few years, BUAV (British Union for the Abolition of Vivisection) have been plugging away for over 100 years to end animal testing; just as Gandhi did his thing, others were (woo-woo … so terrible) blowing up railway lines to stop the British moving troops about.

    The problem is, of course, that these are all handfuls of dedicated but ethical individuals on a minimum to no wages and a shoestring budget against, literally, multi-billion dollar industries playing dirty with big dick lawyers and politicians in their hands. The law is neither just, nor equal for all.

    The failure in your logic and understanding (apart from the fact that whales are not fish … but let us let that one go) is that;

    * groups like Sea Shepherd are not going out intentionally to “wreck boats”. If they were just boat wreckers like, e.g. the monkey wrenchers that wreck loggers equipment, their job would be much easier done and quicker (as Somalian or Philippine pirates prove on a regular basis). But it would not work as a tactic.

    * what we are talking about here are victims, or their proxies, defending themselves from acts of violent. Victims have a perfect right at law to use “reasonable force” to do so, even to carrying arms if they so require. As I am sure you will have to agree.

    It is perfectly obvious to anyone but a bigot, a self-interested industry man or fool that the first offence lies the “unilateral standards” of capitalism as applied by the industrial whalers making up their own rules and willingly put other people’s lives, and ecology, in danger under justification of their profit margins. That is it is. It is not even about whales … not need, just money for screwing the environment.

    When your write “work” you mean adopt a submissive position and often, literally, take a cut or bribe like some Pacific nation islands we could all name … and no doubt it will be disclosed eventually some Japanese politicians. The actions of direct action groups are ultimate defensive. A last line of defence in over 150 years of abuse. Defending the ecology of the planet, of which we know so little, against violent abuse and financial exploitation.

    A far better metaphor, ‘Get a Job’, would be double parking your car in order to block the exit of your neighbour’s car until the authorities arrive, and if there is not a law to stop him, keeping him double parked until your friends pass one.Happens all the time.

    Personally, I think “sport fish” will be the next target once whaling is won. It is an utterly ridiculous, unnecessary and inhumane act to inflict pain, distress and physical damage to a living being for no purpose whatsoever. So expect a rematch soon.

  20. Mad Bluebird said

    The SEA SHEPARDS CONSERVATION SOCIETY like GREENPEACE are nothing but a bunch of pirates they shouldnt be allowed to teach their radical ideas to kids they should be entierly shut down

  21. mac said

    Good God … have young people think for themselves, seek to protect other living creatures and the environment … you are quite right … something should be done about it!

    You can donate by credit card here; http://www.seashepherd.org/donate.html

  22. fh said

    have young people think for themselves

    People who think for themselves are free to agree or disagree, as long as they study all arguments and use reason and logic to reach their opinions. But you’ve made it quite clear that anyone who disagrees with the actions of Sea Shepherd is automatically wrong; ergo the only “right” answer is that Sea Shepherd is good and everyone else is bad. That my friend, under the guise of teaching youth to “think for themselves”, is brainwashing.

    Also, congratulations on completely invalidating the entirety of your arguments by shamelessly linking to a donation page. Better luck next time!

  23. mac said

    I doubt you have actually ever read what I have said on the subject, let alone thought about it. You are just running your pre-recorded tape. The one pre-written for you by the vested commercial interests.

    Are there really only two options, a binary good versus bad … Sea Shepherd versus “everyone” else?

    So, in the spirit of promoting balance and informed discussion, and opposing the corporate whalewash, may I also offer the Japanese Greenpeace donation page for folks to vote with their wallets or credit cards;

    https://www.greenpeace.or.jp/donation-en.html

    It is unfortunate that in this market driven world compassion for other living beings is as unexploitable and undercapitalized as sustainability and conservation are suicidally unprofitable.

    When was the last time you heard of a corporation set up to protect species loss and the environment?

    Its funny how the whale issue rises to the surface time and time again on this blog … but my informed opinion is that it has archetypal influence within the whole “Japanese Question” as it was for the interests of the whaling industry that Japan was first cracked open involuntarily and under the threat of force by the West in the 19th Century.

    Is it not a strange symmetry that 100 years later, it is another breed of ecological buccaneers that are closing down those commercial interests … or cracking open Japan again to greater environmental awareness?

    Are they not the same conservative forces within Japan that resisted the first and who now resist the second? And did they not fail?

    Perhaps brainwashing is exactly what is needed … the washing out from individual’s brains of the tired, old, worn out prejudices you parrot. Put that in your whale oil lamp and light it.

  24. Ecoutez said

    Mac,

    Seriously, “moral warriors leading our civilisation out of its dark age?”

    I, too, have met all too many PETA and Greenpeace activists, and I have noted that they are, for the most part, spoiled rich children. They are narcissists looking for a Meanigful Youth Moment in the form of Daring Activism.

    This becomes transparantly obvious when you consider that most such activist groups never fail to achieve maximun irrationality and self-indulgence in pursuing (and inadvertantly undermining) their goals. Instead of reason and science, they embrace theater and spectacle. They are neither brave nor enlightened – they are confused people looking to satisfy half-formed pseudo-spiritual urges and projecting their own inner lives upon the tabula rasa of “nature.”

    None of which would concern me, were it not for the fact that people with money and resources could and should be helping their fellow humans. In Africa, there are entire societies facing obliteration because of the oil industry and corruption. There are humans starving and dying who could be helped, but the folks with the megabucks prefer to act on behalf of creatures that neither care for them, and which would probably eat them given a chance (whales descended from wolf-like land animals, let’s recall).

    Every society has a right to determine its own destiny, and develop its own relationship to nature. This is fair, because different societies have different needs. There is nothing brave or enlightened about Hollywood carny folk using their corporate revenue to enact upon other cultures their own infantile relationship with a “natural” world they have never had to reckon with in their own sheltered, catered lives. It is cultural imperialism, pure and simple – White America once again acting out of its own self-absorbed sense of superiority to other cultures.

  25. mac said

    Oh, wow. Is America really lead the world (let alone the environmental movement?) It must be a different America from the one I know. So how large a survey do you base your assumptions on … a handful of ‘johnny come lately’ volunteers?

    You offer a fallacious argument. In fact, you attempt to use a number of fallacious arguments. So many, you’re hardly worth responding to. On top of which your factual assertions, along with your moral or legal ones, are so utterly wide of the mark that all they do is advertise the limits of your ignorance.

    But … putting all that aside … “we” are a society and so “we” also have a right to determine “our” relationship with nature of which we have an equal and equivalent share to those that would exploit it. Be they industrial whalers or illegal bushmeat traders in Cameroon.

    Why should “we” accept “your” (whose ever they are) neat little categorisation in national or regional packages … ? I am global and I assert those rights you say I have … globally. Just as the money men do.

    Of course, what you are saying is rubbish. Broad and unsupportable generalisations, an appeal to prejudices, no sense of proportion. I mean, even a dough ball realises that some paparazzi starlet, or bare breasted PETA volunteer has very little to do with the grunt work that goes on behind the scenes of a broad and inclusive social movement. For god’s sake, get your head out of the tabloids, read some academics papers and government reports and realise that there is more to life than soundbites.

    One of the big issues that the environmental movement has woken the world up to to is that “nature” is not unlimited and not packaged off into neat little imperial compartments. It is all connected. And if one person up stream is pissing in the water, then everyone down stream drinks from that. You pull out one piece of the machine and all the rest is effected.

    No one has the right to screw with everyone else’s nature … for nothing more than ‘the money’. That is not even capitalism. It is theft and vandlism.

    For those interested in taking sides with the industrial whalers and bushmeat traders, here is a reliable report and some vivid images of slaughtered primates;

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2019193.stm

    For those interested in taking sides with bare breasted PETA activists, here are some videos of pert, jiggling boobies taken from ‘The Running of the Nudes’ campaign against bull fighting;

    http://www.runningofthenudes.com/campaign_center.asp
    http://www.runningofthenudes.com/photos.asp

    I mean, honestly, if smelly, blood splashed whalers in rubberwear making profits for tired old grey suits are your bag whilst screwing with the ecology … then who am I to judge what you get off on?

    But I know who I would rather be rubbing up against.

  26. Ken said

    “Is America really lead the world (let alone the environmental movement?) It must be a different America from the one I know. So how large a survey do you base your assumptions on … a handful of ‘johnny come lately’ volunteers?”

    No. America cannot afford to lead the world any more.
    Now we are watching the turning point of history but I wonder why no blog is talking about current global crisis.
    ‘There is a new kid in town’?

  27. bender said

    Now we are watching the turning point of history

    I seriously doubt this- the recession is global. These kind of things happen, there is no alternative system to shift into. I see the Japanese press eager to assert the end of Americanism (whatever that means), but they’d better revisit their own nation’s xenophobic & protectionist tendencies. The Nikkei is tanking, btw.

    Speaking of protectionism, there was a good article in Newsweek a while back fearing spread thereof b/c of this crisis. That should be the real concern, as protectionist policies will make everyone suffer around the world. Talks about “the end of America” smacks of protectionism.

  28. bender said

    Oh, remember, after the Great Depression that spread around the globe, colonial powers engaged in protectionism. This is acknowledged as one of the causes for WWII (no, this is not revisionism!), and that’s why WTO was created post-war to promote free trade (find out for yourself if anyone doubts this).

  29. ampontan said

    Ken: One reason the blogs you may be reading aren’t talking about it is that few of the authors can talk intelligently about it.

    For example, people are talking about the death of American style “capitalism”, when in fact many of the problems were caused by non market-oriented government intervention. The reason they are called “subprime” mortgages is that banks were forced to lend money (starting with Janet Reno’s Justice Department back in Clinton’s day) to people who shouldn’t have gotten them to begin with.

    Another is that few people realize that Roosevelt-style measures made matters much worse than they should have been. (He was like Hoover, only he did more of it.) A recent examination found that the economic problems of those days could have ended (in the US) as early as 1937, but that Roosevelt policies prolonged them until 1943.

    Bender: I’m surprised you bother with Timeweek and their ilk any more, for serious news analysis anyway. You might be better off looking at either the National Review and/or Commentary on the right, and something like the New Republic on the left, and then splitting the difference. Some people on the left read The Nation, and I tried a few issues about 15 years ago, but it was too stupid to put up with.

    Ken: One more. Plenty of blogs with knowledgeable people are talking about it in English in the US.

  30. Ecoutez said

    Actually, Mac, my own mother has been an environmental activist since the late 1960’s, and remains so to this day. She also worked for the Humane Society and later ran her own animal rescue facility. I grew up around beasts of every conceivable size and shape, and met many ranchers, farmers, animal rescuers, and many, many environmental activists. That was my upbringing.

    One thing I have noticed about most environmentalists – those who have actually done something to help the environment, I’m talking about – most of them think PETA and Greenpeace and Sea Shepard are nuts. They want nothing to do with them. I have met people who know what they are talking about, and who know which battles to fight if they really want to make a postive change. I therefore have more than enough experience to know the difference between genuine, informed, concerned citizens, and sensationalist cults seeking publicity and thrills. Their theatrics are to the endless detriment of more legitimate organizations and individuals with an ability to see nuance and practice humilty. These irresponsible “activists” discredit the whole movement.

    Case in point, American activists could be saving more lives and doing much more for the environment by staying put in their home country and trying to end farm subsidies for the meat industry. But no, cows are neither romantic nor noble. There is adventure and fun to be had in the sea voyage – hence their calling. Their interests are selfish, and therefore disproportionate to need. A small handful of whales each year, versus millions of cattle and vast expanses of polluted farmland, not to mention the livelihood of the small farmer.

    You can proclaim all you want your right to be seen as the true spokesperson for the environment, but there is such a thing as national and cultural sovereignty, like it or not, not to mention territorial borders.

    Japan is not the country that drove the whale to the brink of extinction. That would be 19th century USA. Nor is it endangering the species now. Countries and cultures that have a centuries-long tradition of hunting a certain animal responsibly – be it whales or seals or what have no – have a right to persist with their traditions without harassment from terrorist organizations convinced of their own moral superiority. Often, those cultures have a much deeper relationship to the animals they hunt and consume than college kids raised on Walt Disney.

    No, sorry, I’m not speaking from prejudice, but all too much personal experience, more than I ever wanted. I’ve met people who care about and understand animals, and I’ve met PETA and Greenpeace activists, and they are not the same people.

  31. Ecoutez said

    I’d also like to add that I myself was a member of PETA when I was 13-14 years old. I failed to renew my membership when, back in the 80’s, they sent me a pamphlet on cruelty to lobsters. I am not making this up. “Screams of torment,” if I recall correctly, was their term for that squeeky sound lobsters make when you throw them in boiling water.

    It occurred to me, then, at that tender young age, that perhaps Ms. Newkirk was a few digits short of a Mastercard.

  32. izanami said

    “we are talking about ‘multi-million’ dollar industrial whaling corporations.”

    It sounds quite small to me. Do you exactly know the wholesale price of an entire whale body, which in return accumulates as “corporate sales”?

    Pardon me if you were talking about indulstrial whaling for oil more than a centuty ago.

    Opinions must flow freely in a democratic society. I do not mind whatever the self-proclaimed “moral leaders” shout, or that they publicly demonstrate, as long as they do not resort to violence over those “blue-collar” whalers.

    After all, it is just the arrogance of the rich and white, based on moral prejudice derived from the society in which they have been raised, viewing wild mammals as more sublime than caged animals or the whalers.

  33. fh said

    Ken: One more. Plenty of blogs with knowledgeable people are talking about it in English in the US.

    I know it’s a bit off-topic, but do you have any particular recommendations? Or if you’ve covered it before, a little kick in the right direction would be much appreciated!

  34. ampontan said

    ft: Here’s the last one I ran across:

    http://fabiusmaximus.wordpress.com/2008/10/10/critical-point/#more-2823

    The 10 October “Status Report” post is the current one. *I have no idea about the credibility of this guy*. I put it up because he has a ton of articles, a ton of links to other stuff, and has argued for a while that this has been a long time coming.

    Last week I found a great site with several knowledgeable people posting, but couldn’t keep up, and now I’ve forgotten the name. I’ll see if I can find it.

  35. Ken said

    Bill,

    Thanks for reply despite of off-topic

    “One reason the blogs you may be reading aren’t talking about it is that few of the authors can talk intelligently about it.”

    You are probably right but my wonder is why readers also do not seem to show interest in on-going problem which is more crucial for us while pursuing past incidents so in detail.

    “Another is that few people realize that Roosevelt-style measures made matters much worse than they should have been.”

    I am supporting monetarism but American economy has already gone so far that it will crash without Keynesian approach.
    Zero-clear is an idea for efficient recovery with no debt but I wonder whether Americans are ready for poverty life.
    If not and the Republican cannot adopt Keynesian policy, Pres. Obama may be a good timing.
    However, It is ironical that it will suffer more those who are opposing Bush admin’s policy if at all it crashes.

    “Plenty of blogs with knowledgeable people are talking about it in English in the US.”

    Most of them seem based on the continuance of ‘US dollar standard’ or discussing to keep it.
    I think US dollar hegemony is ending inevitably so that the discussion with them does not work out.

  36. bender said

    This is kind of old, but good news report:

    http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/update-wall-street/716161/

  37. bender said

    Well, looks like Krugman won the Nobel Prize:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE49C37520081013?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7667190.stm

  38. ampontan said

    And you can participate in a poll on Krugman here.

  39. Mad Bluebird said

    SCREW THE SEA SHEPARDS CONSERVATION SOCIETY their nothing but a bunch of idiots we dont need these idiots running around in their zodiacs harrasing good people and lying through their fat green teeth about this so why dont they all go and take a hike we dont need their rediculous protests and the same to GRENPEACE

  40. rob said

    Anyone who’s seen the Whale Wars show on animal planet now knows the truth about the Sea Shepherds. They are definitely terrorists that use violence to try and force their ideals on other people.

    They threw harmful butyric acid at the scientists and fisherman and boarded the whaling ship without permission and called it a kidnapping. They should be arrested.

  41. mac said

    Interesting, the Associated Press claim the Japanese fired stun grenades at the Sea Shepherd … but that have no shrapnel in them. Plenty of “stun” but not metal … so that is OK.

    Animal Planet’s “Whale Wars” ranked as the most-watched ever for the channel, averaging 946,000 total viewers per first-run episode. The finale averaged just more than 1 million viewers and helped Animal Planet rank ninth among ad-supported cable networks.

    Sadly, it will probably stoke more anti-Japanese sentiments and water residual racism against the people of that nation but, my guess, most of those million came out rooting for the anti-whalers.

    Frankly, the words “terrorist and terrorism” are becoming so over-used that they have about as much impact, and read as ridiculously, as a teenager calling their parents “fascists”. No, no and no.

    Honestly, what motivates these flamers? Are they afraid of turning gay or communist if they don’t boot up their PCs to flame some whale hugging hippies every day?

    But please, Mad Blue, a word of advice. If you are going to flame whale hugging hippies, make sure your spellcheck first. Otherwise it just makes you look like some retarded throwback and damages your own team.

  42. mac said

    I was going to take a break but this dissonance between projection and reality is too great, and too serious to let slip by.

    Whalers refuse help from Sea Shepherd to search for lost sailor

    A Japanese whaling crew member goes missing in freezing Antarctic waters but the whalers refuse assistance the assistance of the Sea Shepherd ship and its helicopter.

    ‘‘We will not accept any help nor cooperation from the Sea Shepherd, who has been harassing our research vessels.’’ Kyodo Senpaku President Kazuo Yamamura continued by saying, ‘‘There is a distinctly uncaring nature about Sea Shepherd people in that they are prepared to disrupt the search for a missing seaman for their own ends.’’

    In a statement posted on the Sea Shepherd website, Paul Watson, said that the crew had no intention of harassing the fleet during their search. He offered the services of the Steve Irwin, two boat crews and a helicopter, in the search for now dead man.

    Never the less, despite the refusal, the two boat crews and a helicopter had been dispatched to search the immediate area for the missing crew member.

    Now, who do you believe? Pride is one thing. Coming after a man fall into the Antarctic is another. Poor guy. Another blow for the harpooners.

  43. bender said

    I believe that whaling is a trivial issue fought between rich countries. In icy cold waters.

  44. Mad Bluebird said

    As long as their acting like pirats they should be treated as such and that means they should get 60 years in prison and absolutly no book deals or movie offers they deserve punishment not awards

  45. Tim Hurst said

    The Sea Shepard is concerned about changing the laws, but the immediate concern is making sure whales are not dying. They believe that the Japanese are being violent to whales, and that they should stop this now. Trying to stop something by changing international law can take years. I respect that they avoid throwing things at crew members on the whaling ships they are not trying to hurt people, they are trying to make it so they can not carry out their job of killing whales. The Japanese ships are starting to retaliate, and they on the other hand are using violent actions. Peaceful protest is for the most part ignored. The people responsible have no intentions of stopping their cash flow. So at least someone is stepping up and doing something about it. If you don’t like the way they operate step up and do something about it!

  46. mac said

    Like you say, the whole “whale issue” is not about “Japan” but about “money” … the grey suits that own the mortgages on the multi-million dollar factory ships.

    And it is not just whale … some fish species are already down by 98% and sushi fashion is still to go prime time in China.

    Rising economies mean rising demands. Japan should set an example of sustainability, at all levels including dietary, to the rest of Asia.

  47. bender said

    We should only eat kappa-maki and kanpyo for sushi.

  48. mac said

    Poor you … you are “allowed” to be a lot more creative than that!

    But that is likely all that you will be able to once the rest of Asia comes into the same economic sphere.

    Think about it … fish harvested from as far away as the South Pole to the Mediterranean … some species does by 95% +, borderline extinction. You cant pull a piece out of the ecosystem without it affecting the rest of the balance just because you like the taste of it. Or think you can make a buck selling it.

    Of what I have seen, the modern standard Japanese diet has become almost as limited in scope as the Western. And no wonder that is called SAD (standard American diet). On one hand, Japan has lost many of it traditional foods and varieties; on the other, it can seem to be too mentally rigid, or limited, about how things are used. “That’s not the Japanese way to do it”.

    We are way off topic. But isn’t kappa-maki also called “california maki”; and hasn’t a lot of fusion cooking actually coming back in from abroad?

    Disappointingly, despite all the “vegan pirate” sobriquets, The Sea Shepherd guys do not even seem to be vegetarians. Who had to laugh when they asked for tempura? The Yushin Maru No.2 must have been the only place to order decent oriental cooking within a few 1,000 miles.

    Two members of Sea Shepherd boarded the Japanese ship on the 15th January 2008. Their menu … (what they have eaten).

    15 January dinner: two slices of bread, corn potage, vegetable salad, green tea, strawberry jam, marmalade.

    16 January breakfast: 2 bread slices, plain omelette, bacon (they didn’t eat the bacon), strawberry jam, marmalade, green tea.

    16 January lunch: chicken rice, tofu with soy sauce, milk, gren tea, hot cakes (dessert).

    16 January 3:20 pm tea brunch: sweet-jellied azuki bean paste (with green tea powder), green tea.

    16 January dinner: white rice, tempura (prawns, squid, sweetfish, sweet potato, beans on the pod), green tea, (they did not eat both prawns nor squid).

  49. bender said

    But isn’t kappa-maki also called “california maki”; and hasn’t a lot of fusion cooking actually coming back in from abroad?

    Not exactly. California roll is a reverse roll, with the rice on the outside and nori in the inside, and included are avocado, cucumber, and imitation crab. BTW, this roll has caused shortage and price hike in surimi (pollock fish paste).

  50. Ric said

    Why does Japan need to kill 1,000 whales each year and 23,000 dolphins? It takes 25 minutes for the Japanese to brutally kill a whale. It takes a few days for the Japanese to brutally massacre 23,000 dolphins. The meat is extremely high in mercury which is fed to school kids in japan. Thousands of sharks each year are caught and striped of their fins and tossed back into the ocean. Their is no reason for this and it should be stopped.

  51. ampontan said

    Here’s another question: Why do some people think it is the Japanese who are catching sharks for the fins and tossing them back in the ocean when the Chinese are the ones known for the practice? You know…different countries, different languages…

    Or do “they” all look alike?

    The 23,000 number is an annual figure for dolphins, not a “few days”, not all of which are “brutally massacred”. (Some sold live to aquatic parks.) Having done some reading in Japanese on this subject, I know the reason they are killed in certain ways is because the meat winds up tasting better that way, according to Nagasaki fishermen, who understood that it didn’t look attractive, and who come from a part of the world where they’ve been eating the meat a long time.

    The 23,000 number for dolphins may be accurate, but then again, the only numbers I’ve seen are those by people who think it is in their interest to exaggerate the figures. If you have a link for these figures from someone not affiliated with a do-gooder group, I’d be interested in seeing it.

    Here’s one more question: Do you ever hear of the Japanese complaining to Westerners about the brutality of cow slaughterhouses or the way chickens are raised?

    If the issue of brutality to animals killed for food turns you on, why not start at home first by doing something yourself–legally, unlike Sea Shepherd–instead of leaving it up to others by saying “it should be stopped”.

  52. Mad Bluebird said

    read the TOM CLANCEY book RAINBOW SIX its all about a wealthy enviromental activist along with a bunch of eco-extremists want to create a deadly virus to wipe-out all humanity on earth and watch the rewilding of the earth from a special encloser

  53. mac said

    The Japanese whalers have just rammed and cut in half the Sea Shepherd’s latest toy … the Ady Gill. The videos, and PR aftermaths, of the events are an interesting study.

    From the Japanese ship’s video, you can clearly see the whalers turn in, and continuing to spray their victims with powerful sea water hoses, even after they have cut the boat in half. They seem to be trying to knock them off a very small deck. It is an astonishing disregard for safety and breach of maritime codes.

    From the Institute of Cetacean Research ship video, the deliberate movement of the whalers towards the Ady Gill is even more clear. They could have easily avoided collision. It was deliberate. But I also think the sound track is revealing. An ICR woman is laughing irresponsibly at the ensuing provocation. It all sounds like a big gaff. The ICR is a a Japanese government created entity which promotes the resumption of commercial whaling.

    The Sea Shepherds appear to have called the Japanese whalers’ bluff but were doing nothing .. and the whalers’ played their cards by destroying the million dollar plus boat which later sank. It is obvious that such a powerful boat would have played a serious role as finder and deterrent in this years cat and mouse, and the whalers took it out. But I think this round will go against them. It was a clearly criminal act.

    Just to get the ridiculousness of it all, the whaling industry PR shill Glenn Inwood is now claiming the Ady Gil was “armed with bows and arrows” inferring the action was justified.

    Whaler view:

    ICR view:

    Split screen:

    On a personal level, just because I love big, bad beautiful machines and not because I agree animals have the right not to suffer, I think it was a terrible thing to do in the pursuit of government funded profit by the Japanese whaling industry.

  54. Sea Shepherd won’t stop its activities because whale wars can attract lots of donation.

  55. no happy ending said

    Although you might just think they are having fun as other people’s expense, there is a little bit more to it that just making money. No one on the Sea Shepherd side is become rich.

    It is strange how the few ordinary Japanese people who know about Sea Shepherd’s antics see the environmentalist group’s actions.

    Strangely, I have found that even amongst Japanese vegetarian-types, would be environmentalists, the first fall of defence is that perceive Sea Shepherd to be racist or encouraged by racist sentiments, i.e that it become “Westerners versus we, Japanese”. Their natural instinct is not to question the ethics of what is involved but become nationalist. They come up with simplistic arguments like, “why don’t they stop Americans eating cows”, arguments they parrot from the media and industry/government spokesmen.

    There seems to be a lack of an ability to think more deeply about the subject, e.g. most Sea Shepherd supporters and activists would be anti-beef as well, vegetarian themselves, or anti-nationalist with no love of America.

    This, “they are only in it for the money” is another such deliberately promoted meme as the “terrorist” one. No, they are not terrorists, they are liberationists.

    Of course, where the Sea Shepherd guys did lose credibility was when they were caught last year and were reported to have enjoyed seafood tempura whilst on board the enemy’s ship.

    Surely they would have achieve more by demanding a vegan dinner or offering to cook?

  56. Of course Sea Shepherd doesn’t get rich, but it certainly needs money to run itself. And fighting against whalers in the Antarctic Ocean is so dramatic and easy-to-understand that SS can easily get donations from a number of people. It is a clear model of “good guys” (SS) vs. “bad guys” (Japan).

    And, I personally don’t think members of Sea Shepherd are racists. That’s pretty ludicrous. The only reason why Sea Shepherd targets Japan is that Japan is the only country who whales in international waters. If Russians hunted whale in the Antarctic Ocean, I’m sure Sea Shepherd would try to stop them too.

    I wonder what will SS do if Japan stops research whaling in the Antarctic Ocean and resumes commercial whaling in the Japanese territorial seas, as a recent IWC draft plan suggests. If SS continues to attack only Japan, then I would think they are racists and chasing money.

    In my opinion, taking direct and radical actions does not help saving whales. Why? Because we feel that environmental groups like SS are pushing their values on us without trying to understand our culture and traditions. Has SS tried to have a dialogue with Japanese people about whaling? Most people, regardless of their nationalities, don’t like being told to what to do or what not to do anyways (e.g. being told “don’t eat meat!” by a vegan), and especially when your fellow citizens have been continuously harassed, would you listen to that harasser? No, right?

    Honestly, stopping whaling doesn’t directly affect my life, as I (and I would guess most Japanese) don’t consume whale meat. However, because Sea Shepherd resorts to radical (and sometimes violent) actions without efforts to understand Japanese culture and traditions, Japanese people would feel disgust at SS. There are other things to do such as reforming IWC and reaching out to Japanese people in a proper way. I don’t think SS has been successful in doing these things. I bet, if approached properly, most Japanese people don’t care whether or not whaling should continue but would support SS.

    That’s why I think SS is doing whale wars just for getting donations. And by continuously harassing Japanese whaling vessels, they can keep fighting whale wars every year to get more donations.

    If we really want to stop whaling, violence doesn’t help that cause.

  57. no happy ending said

    I have to disagree.

    If you look at the history of any social reform movement, they all came about through confrontation. Usually direct and violent confrontation and usually direct and violent confrontation aimed at the victims or reformers.

    Paul Watson is following the proven examples of the slavery abolitionists, civil and women’s rights movements. You are witnessing the rise of animal right and abolitionist movement.

    Please allow me to throw another spanner in the works …

    I am wondering if the problem with large parts of Japanese society is that it knows nothing of civil and social reform movements of the West, the sacrifices and fights they involved confronting the establishment head on, because it never successfully made any of its own?

    I am talking about the peasant or working class in Japan who were basically given a package of human and civil rights, along with property, by the Americans post-WWII without actually having to fight for them. Human and civil right that the peasant and working classes of the West certainly HAD to fight for.

    I am wondering if they have no idea how one makes social changes from the bottom up.

    I am wondering if this talk poo-poo animal rights people is all just more ‘top down’ milieu or mind control that I have seen so often and done so well in the fear-based and infantilized Japanese society.

    Yes, without a doubt, most Japanese do tend to fall defensively back behind the shield of “We, Japanese” and persecution syndromes.

    Yes, direct action beyond a certain point can become counter-productive.

    But the problem is, unlike cows and pigs, the whales and dolphins do not belong to the Japanese to begin with and others feel strong about their welfare.

    A simpler response would be just “most people are ignorant, arrogant, short-sighted, careless and self-centered” … humanity is a murderous and destructive plague at war with all other species. And if the Buddha wasn’t able to fix that, is Paul Watson likely to?

    Probably not, but the anti-whaling war is a winnable one. It is a shameful anachronism that smack of the typical Japanese state and industry crony-ism rather than the will of the people. I am sure that if the people knew the facts, they would care but …

    in Japan you do not have a free press and media to discuss such things, people are ill-informed, and just not educated to think, question and make changes.

  58. I guess some people never understand the differences in people’s values and culture.

    I would say most Japanese are certainly educated and able to think and make changes. They may not be well informed. That point, I agree.

    What I’m saying is that the way SS carries its operations is just not suitable for Japanese people. “If the (Japanese) people knew the facts, they would care.” Then, why doesn’t SS inform them the truths about whaling? Of course I’m talking about the way Japanese people don’t get offended.

    I’m talking about the importance of understanding culture, traditions and language, and this is relevant to all sorts of international, intercultural works. When you deal with different people from different culture with different language and traditions, it’s important to understand them first. Learn their language and way of thinking. Only after you are entrusted, they would open up. Gradually, make friends, inform people about your cause and cultivate core members who agree with your cause. That way, it’s much easier to make a change especially because it’s coming from within.

    I don’t like the way SS operates because it’s so extreme, immediate and result-oriented. You might be able to prevent Japanese from killing whales THIS YEAR with such operations, but do they do any good in long-term? Next year, I’m sure Japanese would come to the Southern Ocean again to hunt whales because SS fails to address the root cause.

    And that is exactly why I think SS continues this kind of dramatic operations because of steady stream of donations they get.

    The Western ways do not always work best, especially in different countries.

    Plus, I agree that social changes through confrontation. But I don’t think they always had to come with violence. Gandhi and MLK Jr. didn’t resort to violent actions yet they made great social changes.

    So Paul Watson is clearly not following the examples of them, as Gandhi and King never resorted to violent actions. Did Gandhi tried to blow up his opponent’s car? No. Did King tried to destroy engines of police cars? I don’t think so.

    Again, there is definitely a better way to deal with whaling, and violence is not the answer to that.

  59. M-Bone said

    Great points FT.

    SS sponsors a series of commercials on Japanese TV stressing how cute whales are = impact.

    SS works with Japanese groups to change some minds = impact.

    SS acts like a bunch of thugs = alienates Japanese people but impresses the hell out of Bob Barker’s checkbook.

    I still haven’t decided if they are a funding machine or if they seriously just don’t get this whole Japan thing.

  60. Aceface said

    “in Japan you do not have a free press and media to discuss such things, people are ill-informed, and just not educated to think, question and make changes.”

    I’d say remove “Japan” and insert “Australia” would fit much more closer to the reality.

  61. ampontan said

    I still haven’t decided if they are a funding machine or if they seriously just don’t get this whole Japan thing.

    It’s not just Japan. The SS brags about having sunk seven ships already, in the other hemisphere. Watson has been in more serious trouble in that part of the world, having seen the inside of jails there.

    Paul Watson is following the proven examples of the slavery abolitionists, civil and women’s rights movements. You are witnessing the rise of animal right and abolitionist movement.

    To say that animals have rights is to change the commonly accepted meaning of the word “rights” in liberal democracies.

    Some people can try to change the meaning of the word, but that doesn’t mean the rest of us are going to accept it.

    Animals aren’t people. They don’t have “rights”. They also can’t accept responsibility for permitting others to exercise their rights, which is part of the defintion.

    Sliding from whales over to dolphins (although killer whales are technically the largest of the dolphins), the dolphins keep sex slaves.

    “In order to coerce the reluctant females, males form groups of two or three – often remaining together in their search for sexual gratification for well over a decade. When they find a suitable female they literally force her to mate with one or more of the group, and have even been known to herd their unwilling consorts for months at a time, basically using them as their personal sex-slaves.

    Although dolphins are not alone in the animal world of gang-rapists, research suggests they’ve the perfected the art to a degree unseen in any other species, and it seems they don’t limit their advances to their female partners, either: there are several reports claiming divers and swimmers have also been accosted.

    Studies would suggest the behaviour is likely to be undertaken for reasons of pleasure as much as reproduction, as dolphins are known to enjoy sexual activity in cases when reproduction would be physically impossible.”

    Where is Mike Honda now that the rights of female dolphins are being violated as they are kept as sex slaves this very day throughout the world!

  62. Steve H said

    Where is the US outrage over the actions of the SS (an infamous, apropos acronym if you ask me)? Their home port is in Washington state. These people are attacking humans, not ships, and putting the lives of other sailors engaged in LEGAL activities to stop commercial whaling. They frame their actions as trying to “save the whales”, but roughly 90% of the whale deaths caused by humans are from boat impacts and fishing nets. Should we do stuff to help the whales in that regard? Sure. We’ve changed shipping lanes to protect migration routes (saving FAR more whales than the SS ever will…and endangered ones at that…)

    “They are endangered” Not the whales that the Japanese are hunting.

    “We’ve saved hundreds of whales” This is a BS argument (at best). This same “rationale” is used by politicians to claim that they’ve “saved” jobs.

  63. Duncan said

    The Sea Shepherds are huge hypocrites. If a Japanese crew member attempted to board a Sea Shepherd vessel the Sea Shepherd crew would not tolerate it. The Sea Shepherds need to be thankful that the Japanese have been so tolerant of their illegal activities (illegal boarding, injuring Japanese crew member etc) because most countries would not tolerate this illegal activity. If the Sea Shepherds attempted to illegally board an American vessel they would be shot and the shooting would be legal. Paul Watson is a criminal and a terrorist. His stupidity is going to result in someone being seriously injured or killed.

  64. mac said

    Paul Watson is a hero that one day will go down in history like the name of those that fought against slavery and for human rights. In his case, for helping bring about animal rights. You, Duncan, are a non-entity.

    @ Steve H … “Should we do stuff to help the whales in that regard?”

    Yes, go vegan and stop deep sea fishing.

    • We all know now that in order to survive humanity, especially those in the developed world, is going to have to go primarily vegan in the long run in order to survive.

    • We all know now that if the developed world was primarily vegan far more of humanity would be able to be fed and survive than happens at present.

    It is really simple. You don’t need to eat all that shit. It is killing you and the planet. You only think you want it because you are being suckered by a vast and greedy industry. And, in the medium turn, you wont be able to afford to eat all that stuff one the oil prices keep rising.

    @ Duncan … who are you boneheads twittering this stuff like parrots all over the internet? 17 year olds eagerly waiting until their birthday so their NRA member Republican fathers can buy them a hunting rifle? Or paid shills for the industry? It is like listening to cult members chant mantras their gurus teach them. In the 60s we had the Hare Krishna going, “Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna …”. In the ’10s we have the pro-Whalers going ” Paul Watson is a criminal and a terrorist … Paul Watson is a criminal and a terrorist”.

    Well, you make one good point … the Japanese are decent, law abiding people and the Americans are vulgar, violent, ignorant buffoons. But I guess it was not the point you intended to.

    No, you got it wrong. The “terrorists” are the ones with a 60 to 160 year track record (if we are to include Commodore Perry) of invading and messing with the cultures of foreign nations where they have no right to be from Korea to Vietnam to Iraq to Afghanistan via Guatemala, El Salvador and all the rest. You know them, they have CIA and Blackwater written all over their fat contracts and drug money.

    Watson may well be a faulted hero but the fight for animal rights is our generation’s fight against slavery … in this case, the slavery of other living beings and about the value of their flesh purely financial.

    I guess your kind were against human slavery abolition in its day too and like most middle Americans … you like your whales; barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen.

  65. Duncan said

    Mac,
    If you really apply yourself, I’ll bet that you could make your writing even more prolix than it already is.
    The Sea Shepherd are trying to elevate themselves to some form of half-assed law enforcement agency, which they certainly are not. As a former member of the United States Navy I can tell you that they have no right to board Japanese vessels. And your ignorance may cause you to miss one important point, but I assure you the Sea Shepherds would be shot if they attempted to board most American vessels.
    If the Sea Shepherds disagree with what the Japanese are doing in the southern ocean then they should contact legislators to effect change. If we are allowed to board vessels because we disagree with the actions of those on board, does that mean I can round up some sailors I used to serve with and then attack and board the Sea Shepherds vessels because I want their terrorist activities to end? Or will you demonstrate Sea Shepherd-like hypocrisy by saying it is ok for the Sea Shepherds to do it but not others?

  66. mac said

    Of course they would not be shot not even by the Navy. Thankfully, MOST Americans are also decent, reasonable people and would take being “invaded” by “terrorists” like Sea Shepherd about as serious as being assaulted by a feather duster by Santa’s little helpers.

    Granted, the Sea Shepherd guys probably would not get fed as well as they did on the Japanese ships if caught by Americans … (apparently the tempura was especially good) … but that is the risk they choose to take in their lives

    Moral and ethical debates very often have to step outside of legalities of economic systems designed to protect the profits of a few above all other principles. Read up on ‘actus reus’ and ‘mens rea’ to understand how the law looks at it.

    The issue here is one of another species’ right to live peacefully and undisturbed in its own natural environment without being made to suffer extreme deaths.

    If you allow me the right to harpoon your mother if I think I can make a buck out of her corpse or do some science on her butt then, fine, I’ll allow you to stormtroop the Steve Irwin.

    Would anything else not be hypocrisy too?

    You obvious lack any understanding or appreciation of the social justice and environment movements; the social spaces which they must occupy, and the protective legal limitations of the capitalist system.

    A faith in “legislators” is as blind as a faith in the Church or Government before the freedom movements brought about the emancipation of Black people, and women, and children, and homosexuals, and Asians from colonial ownership etc in exactly the same way … by defying the law and causing financial damage to the abusers and exploiters.

    Whose side would you have taken in that fight? As a paid military man you would have had to unquestioningly taken the side of the landowners supporting slavery … It is the same dynamic here, friend. A fight against abusers and exploiters.

    You choose which side you want to be on.

  67. ampontan said

    You choose which side you want to be on.

    I choose the side that doesn’t equate harpooning whales with harpooning Duncan’s mother.

  68. Duncan said

    Mac,
    You are making poor analogies by trying to compare things that are completely disimilar and say that they are the same. On multiple occasions you have compared the fight to save the whales to the fight to end slavery. Those two things are in no way similar and it is part of the misguided direction of the Sea Shepherds that would even try to compare those two. The Sea Shepherds are trying to put their cause on a level equal to ending slavery but most people will never equate whaling to slavery. FYI – I would like to see whaling end but I do not think the Sea Shepherds are the right people to do it. Another FYI – Your statement makes it clear that you have never served in the U.S. Navy. If an inflatable pulled alongside a navy vessel and people started boarding the vessel without permission they WOULD be shot; and rightfully so. It is a crime to board a vessel that is underway without permission. The Sea Shepherds constantly talk about how evil the Japanese are. From what I have seen of the conflicts between the Japanese and the Sea Shepherds, the Japanese are the most tolerant and patient people I have ever seen. The Japanese have every right to defend themselves (including shooting those illegally boarding their vessels at sea) and their restraint when dealing with the Sea Shepherds has been absolutely unbelievable. As an American, I can promise you that we would have shot first and asked questions later. Someone needs to put an end to the Sea Shepherds illegal activities.

  69. mac said

    The fight for animal rights is exactly the same as the right for human rights.

    At the time of the exploitation of black people by whites, black people were considered soulless, sub-human, and without any individual rights. They were mere chattel … property … to be exploited ruthlessly and violently for the sake of profit by the leading capitalist economies of the day.

    So too with Cetaceans and other highly evolved sentient beings, such as the Great Apes, today … all around the world, thanks to actions and discussion brought about by groups such as ALF, Sea Shepherds and others, gradual progress is being made not just towards ‘animal welfare’ but for ‘animal rights’.

    You see them as ‘natural resources’ with no rights to be exploited or distrubed at will (for example, the US Navy’s conscienceless use of trained dolphins as torpedo weapons or disruption of whale migration with their sonar). We see them as living beings with rights, e.g. to peaceful existence in their own environment.

    What I noted of the Japanese whalers is that they deliberately turned their vessel in order to cut in half a far smaller vessel, in dangerous waters entirely against marine codes. Do you call that lawful?

    It may be true given how many enemies the USA has current made around the world that they are frightened even by hippies in little inflatables … but I still doubt what you say, especially in the circumstances given. The Shonan Maru 2 knew who they were and were the parties were in communication. Most captains would use their discretion.

    The dolphin and whale issue is Japan are the last refuges of a pathetic nationalist war being waged by a bunch of crank old men. They lost WWII, but they won the first round of the Whale Wars and now they are hanging onto it grimly … the nation is losing far more than they gain by continuing it on.

    You don’t speak for all Americans either.

  70. Duncan said

    Mac,
    I never claimed to speak for “all Americans”. Obviously some Americans are currently funding the Sea Shepherd’s terrorist activities and, that is what needs to be stopped. Anyone donating money to this illegal organization should have to face punitive and compensatory damages.

    You are delusional. You said in your last posting that the Japanese deliberately rammed the Ady Gil. Have you bothered to watch the video that was taken from the deck of the Japanese vessel? In that footage it is clear that the Ady Gil increased speed (notice the change in the turbulence and wake at the rear of Ady Gil) moments before impact. That action forced the impact to happen. The Sea Shepherds staged this accident so that they could cry “poor Sea Shepherds” one more time.

    What I really find interesting is that delusion seems to be a common characteristic for those in the Sea Shepherd organization. Paul Watson says that Sea Shepherds have never injured any of the Japanese. But, one of the Japanese was in fact injured during Pete Bethune’s illegal boarding. Let me see if I understand. If someone reports that they were injured by the Sea Shepherds, Paul Watson can overrule that injury and declare it a non-injury? Paul Watson also says that the Sea Shepherds only use non-violent tactics. He seems to conveniently attempt to re-write history. He ordered the Edward Abbey to open canon fire on the Japanese and has used countless other tactics that have been both violent and life threatening. Fortunately the Sea Shepherd crew on the Edward Abbey had enough sense to not follow his lunacy.

  71. mac said

    Duncan,

    Those are exactly the same kind of allegations the slavery industry used on those attempting to save lives, free slave and abolish the exploitation.

    The animal rights movement occupies exactly the same space as the abolitionists of slavery did. Perhaps you ought to read up on your history a little.

    Catalonia has just banned bullfighting, Spain having afforded rights to the higher primates.

    You do agree that other species have the right to peaceful existence in their own environments, don’t you?

    (What a joke to ask a US military man … a military and government which does not even believe other HUMANS BEINGS have the right to a peaceful existence in their OWN NATION!!!)

    Everyone knows, the Japanese whalers are nothing more than a government funded fraud involved in illegal hunting … and so all Sea Shepherd is doing is acting as a good citizen, a vigilantes where the law is deficient, bringing the fraud and crimes to the world’s attention. You call that terrorism!?! Abbey did not fire at the Japanese, you are recycling tosh from extremist right wing websites.

    Please start by watching the split screen version and interpret how the ‘International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea’ should apply in such a situation. The crew of the Ady Gil were sitting on top of the idling craft relaxing … and signaling … when the Japanese deliberately turned towards it, cutting it in half and then water cannoning the crew.

    Here is a copy of a letter from a ‘Pro-Slavery’ ‘Anti-Abolitionist’ American of around 1840 … Your sort lost that fight and black Americans are not free. Today the debate is about the abolition of the cruel, unnecessary and conscienceless financial exploitation of other animals. Whales plunged an explosive tipped spear, slowly electrocuted or pumped it full of small caliber bullets until they die forty minutes later.

    Do you call that defensible?

    It becomes then every friend of his country to oppose with all his might the spread of such pernicious doctrines: to watch their movement with … ceaseless vigilance, and be ever ready to oppose them, and to stay their mad career …

    The spirit of abolitionism is the spirit of the devil cloaked under the garb of love and philanthropy!

    No good spirit would do as they have done, and are doing. Have they not advised the slave to steal, to runaway from his master, to use brute force. Out of their own mouths they stand convicted of these awfully heinous crimes, for day after day do they send forth their emissaries loaded with papers, books and pamphlets, publishing their own damming deeds to the world.

    The only proven and persistent “terrorists” in the argument are the US Government, its proxies and mercenaries the world over … and the history of the last 60 plus years bears me out.

    In fact, it was the terrorist acts of Commodore Perry and the US Navy opening up Japan involuntarily with threats of overpowering violence, for the sake of its own whaling fleet and financial and political domination of the Asian-Pacific region, that brought upon the world the terrible acts of the 100 years following it.

  72. mac said

    As a side note, I am fascinated by what motivates the extreme right-wing, like this guy, to troll around the internet hunting down any discussion on Sea Shepherd, and attempting to harpoon it dead in the water.

    Is it just the fear of losing their overweight beef burgers to skinny left-wing environmentalist, or something?

    I mean, I can see where the animal rights people are coming from. They love animals, they hate suffering and exploitation. They are motivated by compassion and whales are beautiful, complex, peaceful and intelligent mammals.

    I can see where the handful of fisherman making big bucks out of big government funding are coming from. They are in it for the money.

    But why voluntarily take sides with handful of foreign fisherman on a payola scam!?!

    Duncan, if you can tell me what it is that really motivates you, I would be genuinely interested to know.
    ———–
    After reading through Duncan’s notes again, I cannot seem to find anything in there that can be characterized as “extreme right wing”.

    Unless it’s respect for the rule of law.

    – A.

  73. Duncan said

    Mac,
    You seem like you are off your meds and your repeated postings about slavery and other atrocities are not related to this subject. Whaling does not equate to slavery. Only knuckleheads like you will ever make that association and it is insulting to compare the oppression and harm that was done to an entire race of people to hunting a few whales.
    Why do I post here and in other blogs? If you noticed, all of my postings on this matter are recent (within the last week or so). It may surprise you to know THAT I USED TO BE A SUPPORTER OF SEA SHEPHERD. I have even financially supported them. However, when I supported them I was not aware of their illegal activities. As I previously said, I served several years in the U.S. Navy and because of that service I know that Paul Watson frequently violates maritime law, the law of the sea, and marine navigation rules. On top of that Paul Watson lies about his actions. It would be easier to support Paul if his actions, whether right or wrong, were followed by the truth. Remember when Paul said two Sea Shepherds were taken “hostage” by the Japanese? Those two Sea Shepherds were not “hostages”; they were under arrest and subject to the laws of Japan from the moment they decided to illegally board a Japanese vessel. For Paul to say they were taken “hostage” proves that Paul is either extremely stupid for not knowing they were under arrest or Paul is the most desperate person for attention that the world has ever seen.

    Also, you seem to have a very short attention span. You ask why I side with the Japanese. I have FREQUENTLY repeated that I do not support whaling in any way. However, Paul Watson is pushing my support during conflicts with Sea Shepherds to the Japanese because of Paul’s illegal tactics. Anyone that has served at sea should find Paul Watson’s tactics disgraceful and illegal. What Paul Watson is doing has nothing to do with saving the whales and everything to do with showboating. The fact that he has convinced Americans to finance his illegal activities is the most amazing thing about the Sea Shepherd organization. Paul Watson is a criminal that refuses to answer to multiple warrants (Costa Rica, Norway, etc)and he continues to hide behind the mask of a “conservationist” to justify the crimes he is committing at Sea. If any of the Sea Shepherds are killed by the Japanese the next time they go to the Southern Ocean, it will be entirely Paul’s fault (although you can be certain that Paul does not possess enough character to own responsibility for it) and it will have happened because of Paul Watson’s out of control ego, narcissism, and amazing level of stupidity.

  74. mac said

    I never asked why you side with “the Japanese”. It is not a collective, nationalistic issue. I pointed out that supporting a handful of commercial whalers … who happened to be causing their nation far more political economic harm whilst living off state handouts.

    There is a 3 way split of the ramming of Ady Gil, here:

    Around 1:25, you see the Japanese boat clearly turnaround and aim at the smaller craft. The crew are all sitting around, joking and relaxing on top of it, and then at 1:40 turn away from it. It was deliberate and easily avoidable.

    As I will keep banging on … and you keep avoiding … this is a right issues. The correlation with the abolition of slavery is that prior to the “criminal” activities of the abolitionists, black people were just seen a mammals with no rights.

    In this case, and others, animal rights activists seek to extend the concept of legal rights to non-human animals.

    During the financial exploitation of black people, “the law” protected the slavers. , “The law” current, pretty much, protects unlimited exploitation of natural resources. The law tends to be written by and for the capital interests and state who profit from it and is not complete … is not perfect The law is changed by campaigning, protestation and direct actions.

    There is a weakness to the over-use of a term such as “terrorist”. If a boy cries wolf too often, the village stops listening to him.

    Note the big crime Watson is accused of in Japan is “obstruction of business” and yet they say their whaling is about scientific research!?!

  75. Duncan said

    Mac,
    Your defense of the indefensible makes it seem like you are one of the Sea Shepherds; but whether you are or not let me respond to your statement about crying “terrorist” too much this way:

    There is a video on the internet that clearly shows someone on the Ady Gil shooting arrows at the Shonan Maru #2. All of the bullshit that you go on and on about sounds like it originated directly from a diseased mind. The arrow that the Sea Shepherds fired at the Shonan Maru #2 could have killed someone. If firing lethal weapons at a ship does not constitute terrorism in your warped mind then what would be necessary to categorize it as terrorism? Also, you said the Edward Abbey did not fire on the Japanese. You are correct; the Edward Abbey did not fire because thankfully the crew refused to follow Paul Watson’s criminal orders. If they had followed Paul Watson’s orders then they would have fired on the vessel. If ordering the firing of a canon at a vessel that is underway on the high seas does not constitute criminal terrorist conduct then, again, what does? Evidently you have a very strange definition for terrorism and I suspect the Sea Shepherds do as well.
    The Sea Shepherds treat the high seas like the new Wild West. They think that they can commit any crimes they want there and they will not be held accountable. I predict that is going to change.

  76. mac said

    What is “diseased” about seeking the right of ‘a peaceful existence in one’s own natural environment’ for other highly evolved mammals?

    Don’t you accept that animals should have some rights not to be exploited and not to suffer intensely … or do you think they have no rights and deserve to suffer like the dolphins the US Navy strapped explosives and taught how to blow themselves up?

    OK, let’s take your family’s pet dog, for example.

    I’d like to spear it on a barb … drag it around the park for 45 minutes … shoot it several times with a small caliber pistol and perhaps electrocute it and then … just before it drowns in its own blood … I’d like to skin it and start cutting bits of its flesh off in order to “do science” on it later ho-ho-ho. (… “Science” which translates as “selling it to Asian restaurant for money.”).

    Would not you suggest that anyone who did so was “mentally diseased”? But then … is that not what the commercial whalers are doing?

    So … simple question … is that right or wrong?

  77. Duncan said

    Mac,
    I wonder if it is possible for you to be as confused as you seem to be.
    Animals should have rights. I previously said that I used to support the Sea Shepherds. However, where you and I will obviously never agree is that I believe that it is a crime to commit assault; to fire lethal weapons at the Japanese; to violate the rules of navigation; violate laws of the sea; violate maritime law; etc; etc. You believe that it is ok for the Sea Shepherds to commit crimes as long as they say they are doing it to save animals. It is NOT ok for them to EVER commit a crime for their cause.
    The remarkable thing in this ordeal is that the patience and tolerance of the Japanese are actually helping protect the Sea Shepherds. The Sea Shepherds should have been charged with attempted murder, and other felony charges, when Pete Bethune was on trial.

  78. mac said

    I am sorry, but your argument is so distorted that any claims you make about yourself are utterly dubious. Your attempt at creating negative public opinion are so transparent, they fail.

    As I point out again, your argument is identical to the arguments and ploys engaged by the pro-slavery movements against the Abolitionists, e.g. personal insults, exaggerated allegations, bogus legal arguments. Direct action has proven time and time again to be a successful device in changing the opinions of those that habitual financially profit out of exploitation.

    Humanity is evolving. Once the racism on which slavery was built was the issue of the day; today speciesism is the rising issue.

    The law is worth shit in this area. Everyone knows it. Everyone salutes Sea Shepherd and laughs when they cock-a-snoot at tinpot dictator governments trying to protect a bogus government funded “industry”. Bethune walked free and Sea Shepherd welcomed him straight back! The damage done to Japan’s reputation far outweighs the value of the face saving trial.

    Meanwhile, read about the corruption in the Japanese whaling industry from an insider … http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jun/14/whistleblower-expose-japanese-whaling.

    The Ady Gil had right of way before it was deliberately rammed and cut in half by the whalers. Fact. What is more likely to kill someone? A bow and arrow or running them over with several 100s of tonnes of steel in Antarctic waters?

    The rest is bs. Sea Shepherd have a water cannon and an air gun to fire rancid butter. No shot was fired, so there was no crime. Arrows were for tainting whale meat so it could not be sold illegally. Again, no shots were fired, so there was no crime. Shooting a dead whale is not a crime.

    If there is one miracle of the worldwide animal rights movement it is the lack of harm done against individuals.

    Let’s look at the ethical aspect … the United Nations World Charter for Nature states in Section 21: “States and, to the extent they are able, other public authorities, international organizations, individuals, groups and corporations shall … safeguard and conserve nature in areas beyond national jurisdiction.” … “Each person has a duty to act in accordance with the provisions of the present Charter; acting individually, in association with others or through participation in the political process, each person shall strive to ensure that the objectives and requirements of the present charter are met.”

    These are situations beyond national jurisdiction.

  79. Duncan said

    Mac,
    If you are not already a member of the Sea Shepherd organization then I strongly urge you to join as soon as possible; you are the exact type of idiot they are looking for.
    You said that everyone “salutes” the Sea Shepherds? I do not know of a single person, that supports your fraudulent, criminal, and terrorist organization. Everyone I know says the Sea Shepherds should be held accountable for their actions. I know the Sea Shepherds have supporters but again, no one I know would support such a dishonest and unethical organization. I predict that the tactics used by the Sea Shepherds are going to begin conforming with the law. The Sea Shepherds are not the cowboys that they want everyone to believe they are. The Southern Ocean is not the new wild west where terrorists can commit crimes without being held accountable for it.

    You said above that the Sea Shepherds crimes occur beyond national jurisdiction. Once again, you are an idiot in the truest sense of the word. You should read more about how acts of terrorism and affect jurisdiction.

  80. mac said

    By the way, before we fall out, what are you doing to stop animal exploitation and bring about animal rights? Are you vegan yet?

    The ethical problems that species such as Cetaceans (whales, dolphins and porpoises), tuna and others bring up is that they are transnational. Their migration paths cross through many sovereign waters.

    They are intelligent beings and no one’s property. No one has the right to slaughter them in a painful and prolonged manner. No one has a right to financial exploit them.

    Unfortunately, the law is impotent in cases such as these. Everyone knows that. Conservationists have to step into the grey areas that still exist and raise public awareness of these issues. “Legally” you can hunt a species to extinction … that does not make it good, right or proper.

    If you really are an ex-servicemen (and for all we know that could just mean a potato peeler in a galley), what you are suffering from a kind of cognitive dissonance confronting new information. if you really are an ex-servicemen (and who can tell you are not a paid shill), you will have come out of highly controlled social structure that rewards obedience to ‘rules’.

    You were one of the Sherif of Nottingham’s paid men. Sea Shepherd are Robin Hoods. Robin Hoods have more fun, more people like and remembers them. Sea Shepherd will go down in the abolitionist history of animal exploitation and their supports will be proud and happy of that. You wont even exist … not even as a remain a tiny unheard voice that supported the exploitation. One can only imagine the social circle of an ex-serviceman to know that “no one”, in your small and limited world, means “nothing at all”.

    If, of course, you are an ex-serviceman … for all we know, you could just be a kid in his mom’s basement or a paid shill like the corporate whore Glenn Inwood.

    Glen Inwood we all know as the media spokesman for the Japanese government funded seafood restaurant suppliers … the so-called “Institute of Cetacean Research”. About the only research they do is new menu items.

    Typical of the culture of cronyism, nepotism and government slush funded operations Inwood also take a backhanders off an organisation which owns half of a New Zealand seafood company, the other half being owned by the Japanese company Nissui – which is also a shareholder in Japan’s whaling fleet, the Japan Fisheries Agency and the Japan Whaling Association.

    Nice payola … no one else would touch the dirty accounts. Oh, his PR company does tobacco companies too.

    If you are a paid shill, paid to troll the internet attempting to flood the search engines with “Paul Watson … fraud … criminal … terrorist” as some are, then I would have more respect for you. At least you are making money from it.

    But if you are doing it for free … who is the idiot?

    Why would you choose to voluntarily spend your time defending an obsolete government slush funded industry carrying out barbaric acts on magnificent creatures? Are you just some kind of frustrated, alpha male, wannabe “sea-cop” who is too fat to fit into his whites any more and whose kids don’t even listen to what you say?

  81. Duncan said

    Mac,
    This will be my last posting here. Honestly, debating with you makes me feel like I’m picking on a retarded child.
    But I do want to respond to some of your comments above:
    1. You said above “if I were an actual ex-serviceman”: I am a navy vet and I have the DD-214 to prove it. I was not a potato peeler but even if I was your logic once again escapes me but suggesting that would somehow diminish my naval career.
    2. You ask if I’m a kid that still lives with his Mom. Unfortunately, even Mom doesn’t live with Mom anymore.
    3. I have never heard of Glenn Inwood. I assure you I am not him; I do not support or assist him in anyway.
    4. On more than 1 occasion you have questioned the reason for my postings. Am I doing it for money or attention. That is your biggest failing. You can only conceive of people doing things for the spotlight (which is what the Sea Shepherds do) or for money (which is what the Sea Shepherds do).

    My postings are all my thoughts alone and they reflect the fact that I find it outrageous that someone’s crimes can be televised on tv and they are still not held accountable for it. I support an end to whaling but the Sea Shepherds are not the organization to effect change in that area. There is nothing noble or just in what the Sea Shepherds are doing. The Sea Shepherds are criminals that believe they are above the law. I will say again, if the Japanese kill one of them when they return to the Southern Ocean it will be entirely Paul Watson’s fault but since Paul Watson is so devoid of character I can already hear him blaming the Japanese.

  82. Duncan said

    Also, I didn’t answer your question about what I’m doing to support animal rights. You ask if I’m vegan. I’m curious to know if Paul Watson is vegan because, if he is, he must eat a lot of vegetables to give his body its current geometry.

    You should give serious consideration to my previous suggestion about you joining the Sea Shepherds if you are not already a member. Reason: You are remarkably like-minded with Paul Watson. Nothing you say has to make sense and you twist things (like Paul) to help promote the “poor Sea Shepherds” bullshit. Even though most of my messages clearly and repeatedly say that I’m opposed to whaling (in all forms) your replies consistently put me in the category of supporting whaling. Your dishonesty is a pathological as Paul Watson’s. Lets see if I understand: If someone opposes the crimes of the Sea Shepherds, that means they support whaling? Nah, it just means that many people are opposed to what you idiots are doing in the Southern Ocean. Illegally boarding a vessel is a serious crime but the Sea Shepherds treat it as though it were no more serious than littering. Shooting arrows at the Japanese, violating the rules of navigation, etc, etc. None of your messages acknowledge that each of these are serious crimes. But they are all serious crimes and they sully the stated purpose of the Sea Shepherds when they are committed.

    Ironically, the Japanese are helping the Sea Shepherds more than anyone else by tolerating this illegal activity and not appropriately prosecuting the Sea Shepherds after they have been arrested.

  83. mac said

    I am sorry … did you actually answer what you are doing to support animal rights?

    Fat vegans? Sure, there are plenty. Yes, I understand that Sea Shepherd has a ‘vegan food’ only policy on their although not all of their conservationists are. I suspect it is hard to find many vegans with experience as a seamen or women. Personally, I would accept “as vegan as possible” as good enough and the blueprint for sustainability.

    No, boarding a vessel is neither illegal nor a crime. You obviously know nothing about the law. It all comes down to “why” … mens rea and how it influenced the actus reus.

    In Bethune’s case, he was serving legal papers non-violently after the Japanese deliberately sunk his vessel and tried to kill its crew.

    No one shot any arrows at the commercial whalers.

    So where is your argument? Its all bluster and we don’t believe you are what you say you are.

    I am still interested to know why the Sea Shepherd hate campaign motivates the likes of you … my guess is that it boils down to the simple fact that … they are having more fun than you.

    Everyone wants to play at being a pirate … what kind of man likes to pretend to be a cop? Yo ho ho … and an end to the whaling industry.

    The tax deductable SS donation page is here: http://www.seashepherd.org/support-us/ They also accept old vehicles, here: http://www.seashepherd.org/support-us/vehicle-donation.html

  84. Duncan said

    Mac,
    Your posting demonstrates what a sad person you really are. You said that no one shot arrows at the whalers because you knew that the Sea Shepherds would lose support if it were discovered that they resorted to such tactics. It would be one thing if you were simply too naive to know that the Sea Shepherds DID SHOOT ARROWS AT THE JAPANESE but you and I both know you are not naive when it comes to the Sea Shepherds. As much as you troll the internet for all things Sea Shepherd, I know that you have already seen the You Tube video that clearly shows Sea Shepherds shooting arrows at the Japanese. So, you knew that the Sea Shepherds DID shoot arrows at the Japanese and those arrows could have killed someone. Your statement about the Sea Shepherds “not shooting arrows” was not a mistake on your part; you intentionally lied. Lying is a move straight out of the Paul Watson play book; he would be proud of you.

  85. AZNdude said

    Also these are the laws the Japanese Whalers are breaking:
    “1. The Japanese are whaling in violation of the International Whaling Commission’s global moratorium on commercial whaling. The IWC scientific committee does not recognize the research that the Japanese are using as an excuse.
    2. The Japanese are killing whales in the internationally recognised Southern Ocean Sanctuary for whales.
    3. The Japanese are killing whales unlawfully in the Australian Antarctic Territory (Australian Law – Federal Court judgement January 2008 under the Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act 1999)
    4. The Japanese are targeting fin whales and humpback whales. One is listed as an endangered species and the other listed as a threatened species. This is a violation of CITES, the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora, of which both Japan and Australia are signatories.
    5. The Japanese are in violation of IWC regulation 19. (a) The IWC regulations in the Schedule to the Convention forbid the use of factory ships to process any protected stock: 19. (a) It is forbidden to use a factory ship or a land station for the purpose of treating any whales which are classified as Protection Stocks in paragraph 10. Paragraph 10(c) provides a definition of Protection Stocks and states that Protection Stocks are listed in the Tables of the Schedule. Table 1 lists all the baleen whales, including minke, fin and humpback whales and states that all of them are Protection Stocks.
    6. The IWC regulations specifically ban the use of factory ships to processy any whales except minke whales: Paragraph 10(d) provides: “(d) Notwithstanding the other provisions of paragraph 10 there shall be a moratorium on the taking, killing or treating of whales, except minke whales, by factory ships or whale catchers attached to factory ships. This moratorium applies to sperm whales, killer whales and baleen whales, except minke whales.”
    7. the presence of military/ security forces breaches the Antarctic treaty
    8. the whaling fleet regularly refuels in the treaty zone below 60 degrees south in breach of the Antarctic treaty. In October 2008 the whaling fleet’s refueling and cargo vessel, Oriental Bluebird, was deflagged following a ruling by Panamian Authorities. The maximum fine of 10,000 Balboas (US$10,000) was imposed on the owners of the ship, Hiyo Shipping Co. Ltd, in Japan who on October 8th removed its Panamanian registration and flag. Japan has ratified an international treaty which seeks to end the practice of ‘re-flagging’ vessels in order to circumvent international environmental law.
    9. the Whaling fleet fails to submit Environmental Management Plans in case of a maritime disaster in the Treaty zone which breaches the Antarctic treaty. The Nisshin Maru factory ship caught fire in 2007 losing all power including to its engines. One crew member died. An environmental disaster was threatened, but did not eventuate.” http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2010/01/08/18634765.php
    ——-
    AZND: Thanks for your note.

    But…

    these are the laws the Japanese Whalers are breaking

    IWC regulations are not “laws”.

    Also, #2 and #3 are incorrect. Australians make those claims about the territory, but those claims are not “internationally recognized”.

    The United States, however, does not recognize any other country’s territorial claims to Antarctica. (See the government’s Supreme Court brief in Smith v. United States, which you can find at 1992 WL 511966, and which collects authorities).

    In addition to the US, neither Japan nor Russia recognizes the Australian claim. One supporter of the Australian claim said only about 15 nations did, but didn’t cite them.

    Even the New York Times (!) characterized the Australian position as “absurd”, and that’s the leading left-wing pro-environmental print media voice in a country officially opposed to whaling.

    – A.

  86. AZNdude said

    The whaling fleet also violates the Madrid Protocols

  87. AZNdude said

    International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea 1972 (COLREGS) clearly state that the Shonan Maru was in the wrong.

    Section II (for vessels in sight of one another)
    13. Overtaking
    Notwithstanding anything contained in part B, sections I and II, an overtaking vessel must keep well clear of the vessel being overtaken. http://www.ats.aq/documents/recatt/att249_e.pdf 

    Whalers obviously sped towards the Ady Gil. The Ady Gil is a fast boat, but it wasn’t moving full speed like some whalers claim, it was in a near stand still. The Shonan Maru clearly sped up towards the Ady Gil, if the Shonan Maru kept it’s previous course there would have been no collision, Shinan Maru is in the wrong.
    —————
    AZND: Thanks again.

    Speaking of laws, here’s some Australian law you may not be aware of:

    Australian Maritime Law, the Crimes (Ships and Fixed Platforms Act) 1992, Part 2, Division 1, Section 10:
    “A person must not engage in conduct that causes damage to a private ship or its cargo, knowing that such damage is likely to endanger the safe navigation of the ship.
    Penalty: Life imprisonment.”

    Which would mean that the key would have been thrown away for Paul Watson and his crew long ago, including whoever was on board the Ady Gil. They were the ones who initiated the dangerous conduct.

    The last time I had the misfortune of visiting the SS website, they bragged about the seven ships they’ve rammed and sunk worldwide.

    This is the same Paul Watson who’s been in an out of jails on several continents, right?

    The same Paul Watson who intentionally rammed a Japanese ship in 2007? The videos on that one are even clearer.

    The same Paul Watson who encourages activitists in his book to lie to the media?

    That Paul Watson? And his ship got sunk?

    Big boys’ games, big boys’ rules.

    The poor dears. Remind me to light a candle for them the next time I go to church.

    – A.

    PS: If the Australians want to complain about the treatment of whales, they might want to clean up their own act with wallabies and kangaroos first.

  88. mac said

    I am sorry Mr A. but that is a highly fallacious defence. By the same logic, the brutal Japanese bear and vicious monkey hunting cancels out the Australian marsupials and still leave behind our whales.

    In 2006 alone, 4,340 Japanese black moon bears were killed by hunters … potentially as many as half the entire population. Since WWII more than 100,000 have died, that is almost half as many mammals as died in the Massacre of Nanking, despite the species is classed as “vulnerable” by the International Union for Conservation of Nature … and no one can claim that of the Chinese. The 1996 figure for murdered monkey in Japan was 9,000. In many cases, the Japanese even scramble the Self Defense Force to do the killing and you know what that means … next stop Korea.

    (NB, the figures are accurate, as is the SDF reference, but the rest is a cynical parody).

    Given a lack of any interspecial scale of values, the big difference between the cetacean nation and wallabies and kangaroos, is that wallabies and kangaroos exist entirely on Australia sovereign territory. Although it is not a point I agree with … they are entirely Australian “property” and an Australia responsibility.

    Not true of the cetacean nation whose existence predates our species by some 38 million years or more. Their domain crosses international borders and waters … and therein lies the problems of ownership and sovereignty. Neither wallabies and kangaroos are endangered species … indeed, kangaroos are ‘endangering’ species. Additionally, the Japanese whalers are hunting in the Southern Ocean Whale ‘Sanctuary’ and the nature reserves of Wakayama. They just don’t care.

    Amazingly, with its usual conscienceless and inhumane contempt for animal rights – this is a nation relishes eating living fish skinned but still flopping about on plates – I have seen wallabies for sale on the top floor of a tower block DIY store. In the same type of perspex cage they use for selling factory farmed dogs and cats. Apparently there was a fad for keep them as pets, in typical Japanese apartments, where they lived until dying early for the lack of natural environment and proper diet. No one knows how to keep them …

    In the case of the Ady Gil ramming, a key element in maritime law would be the disproportionate size of the two vessels making it different from any previous collisions. Sea Shepherd’s defense is that they are acting against criminal operations. In such situations, different legal interpretations apply, i.e. if I punch your light outs, it would be a common assault … but if you raping a child when I did so, I’d be a community hero and no court would touch me.

    Most people consider “higher mammals” (great apes, whales etc) to have intelligent and sentience at least as high as a child’s. Many propose that they should therefore be afford equivalent rights. Some countries are already moving legally in that direction. Unfortunately, NE Asia, with its more recent cruel feudal heritage of human on human brutality, is sadly an ethical throwback when it comes to animals.

  89. Roual Deetlefs said

    You Ninnies.

    None of you are interested in saving the whales. They don’t need saving. Once something has a price it is cultivated. Look at the growth of the lion population in South Africa (that has a price) , and the decline of the cheetah population (which hasn’t).

    You’re a bunch of media hogs, operating a shakedown racket.

    Why Japan. Why not Russia. It’s because they will shoot you !!!

    You’re a bunch of cowards too.

  90. Roual Deetlefs said

    So what must be done to stabilize and increase the size of the whale population in the Pacific.

    Let’s look at the story Iceland. And more specifically how they made their money, in the first place, before going bust in 2007.

    This from an article in Vanity Fair :

    It’s now possible to curl up in bed with “The Economic Theory of a Common-Property Resource: The Fishery.” One way or another, the wealth in Iceland comes from the fish, and if you want to understand what Icelanders did with their money you had better understand how they came into it in the first place.

    The author goes on to say :

    The brilliant paper was written back in 1954 by H. Scott Gordon, a University of Indiana economist. It describes the plight of the fisherman—and seeks to explain “why fishermen are not wealthy, despite the fact that fishery resources of the sea are the richest and most indestructible available to man.” The problem is that, because the fish are everybody’s property, they are nobody’s property. Anyone can catch as many fish as they like, so they fish right up to the point where fishing becomes unprofitable—for everybody.

    And then later :

    Simply limiting the number of fish caught won’t solve the problem; it will just heighten the competition for the fish and drive down profits. The goal isn’t to get fishermen to overspend on more nets or bigger boats. The goal is to catch the maximum number of fish with minimum effort. To attain it, you need government intervention.

    And this is how the Icelandic Government intervened :

    Iceland’s big change began in the early 1970s, after a couple of years when the fish catch was terrible. The best fishermen returned for a second year in a row without their usual haul of cod and haddock, so the Icelandic government took radical action: they privatized the fish. Each fisherman was assigned a quota, based roughly on his historical catches. If you were a big-time Icelandic fisherman you got this piece of paper that entitled you to, say, 1 percent of the total catch allowed to be pulled from Iceland’s waters that season. Before each season the scientists at the Marine Research Institute would determine the total number of cod or haddock that could be caught without damaging the long-term health of the fish population; from year to year, the numbers of fish you could catch changed. But your percentage of the annual haul was fixed, and this piece of paper entitled you to it in perpetuity.

    And this is how Iceland made its money :

    Even better, if you didn’t want to fish you could sell your quota to someone who did. The quotas thus drifted into the hands of the people to whom they were of the greatest value, the best fishermen, who could extract the fish from the sea with maximum efficiency. You could also take your quota to the bank and borrow against it, and the bank had no trouble assigning a dollar value to your share of the cod pulled, without competition, from the richest cod-fishing grounds on earth. The fish had not only been privatized, they had been securitized.

    And the result :

    It was horribly unfair: a public resource—all the fish in the Icelandic sea—was simply turned over to a handful of lucky Icelanders. Overnight, Iceland had its first billionaires, and they were all fishermen. But as social policy it was ingenious: in a single stroke the fish became a source of real, sustainable wealth rather than shaky sustenance. Fewer people were spending less effort catching more or less precisely the right number of fish to maximize the long-term value of Iceland’s fishing grounds. The new wealth transformed Iceland—and turned it from the backwater it had been for 1 100 years to the place that spawned Björk.

    So to save the whales one must apply a similar model. In this instance some international co-operation is needed, as well as some maritime treaties, and NOT grandstanding …

    You can read this article here.
    ———–
    Interesting article. Government intervention for the sake of privileging a few bothers me, but at least they privatized and securitized it and allowed the quotas to be bought and sold. I was wondering if this would prevent people who had never fished before from becoming commercial fishermen, but the part at the end suggests newcomers could buy the rights.

    – A.

  91. mac said

    I cannot find where the Sea Shepherd guys rammed a Japanese boat but I did find this one.

    Again, it looks more like the Japanese slapping Sea Shepherd. Still no comparison between two vast vessels knocking and one vast steel vessel cutting a carbon fibre boat in half when is crew were all sitting on top of its roof.

    Who is picking the unfair fight?

    The activist are going after the Japanese Government funded whalers because the Japanese Government is driving the market. No one else is eating the toxic laden shit. No one else is buying it. And, sure, the Japanese are buying illegally caught whales too. The Russians an Koreans are certainly doing that.

    The animal rights abolitionist argument goes beyond the valuing life by the financial value of the animals corpses to a much higher level of ethics … and environmental protection.

    It like say, “we can manage the kaffirs better if we stick a price on their heads”. Well, sure, one probably could … but its a little bit backwards.

    The argument is simple. These creature are not resources and have a right to a peaceful life in their own environment.

    Ampontan, does not it go against your anti-big government, anti-government funding to have a whale industry funded by the government?
    ————
    Of course. But most agriculture is subsidized by governments throughout the world.

    That doesn’t mean I’m going to stop eating in protest.

    The SS rammed the Japanese ship in 2007, and the video was on the Cetacean Institute website. Probably didn’t put it on Youtube. They rammed directly into the side of the ship at a 90 degree angle, on purpose. They brag about doing that kind of stuff.

    The Japanese ship was undamaged but the SS ship wound up dead in the water for a while.

    – A.

  92. Duncan said

    I recently read Pete Bethune’s confession about the malignant dishonesty that pervades the Sea Shepherd organization. In his message he admits his part in numerous lies and seems remorseful. While I still do not support many of the tactics he used against the Japanese (shooting arrows, sinking Ady Gil, etc) I do respect the fact that he has chosen to be honest. Pete Bethune’s statement is 100% correct: Sea Shepherd does not have to lie and manipulate its story to get public support for its cause. I’m am proof of the veracity of Pete’s statement. I used to be a supporter of Sea Shepherd (including financial support) but I stopped supporting the Sea Shepherds when it became clear that they were commiting crimes. I do not support Japanese whaling but the Sea Shepherds illegal activities has pushed my support to the Japanese when they face the Sea Shepherds. Put another way: The Sea Sea Shepherds PR effort is so rancid that the Sea Shepherds turn some of their own supporters against them. That fact alone proves that whoever is in charge of public relations for the Sea Shepherds is a complete idiot.

    To Pete Bethune: I’m sure it was very difficult to come forward and be honest about things that do not present you in a positive way, but I assure you that people will respect you for your honesty and remorse. I do. I only hope that others in the Sea Shepherd organization will soon follow your example.

  93. mac said

    I, frankly, don’t believe you are who you say you are. I doubt most people would do either. There are too many paid shills and right wing reactionaries out to ‘do’ the anti-whaling and environmental campaigns. I would just guess you are another of them.

    What it all boils down to is that:

    a) Bethune provided a false testimony to the Japanese authorities regarding Captain Paul Watson.

    Despite the SS spending $500,000 on legal costs (how the hell!!!), Bethune sold out Watson and gave the Japanese what they wanted.

    b) This resulted in an alleged warrant issued for Captain Watson within Japan and the placement of Captain Watson’s name on the Interpol Blue List, potentially infringing on Waston’s freedom and mobility. It will certainly, screw any possibility for him to come to Japan to further his cause. It may seriously damage the campaign if some reactionary State, e.g. USA, can use it against him.

    c) Bethune is attempting to cover his for grassing up on Watson by creating a stink.

    d) Bethune’s written statement is complete contradicted by the video evidence which exonerates Watson … and even makes Watson look mature and reasonable.

    e) The longer term target of the Japanese is probably to cause financial damage to the SS campaign via ‘chilling effect; legal action targeting Watson, and to damage fund raising efforts.

    If it happens, Bethune will turn out to be one big Judas.

    It is all here:

    http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-media/news-101005-2.html

    http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-media/news-101005-1.html

    Bethune will go down as a sidenote in history for being a grass, when he could have been a hero. His raving about a further $500,000 and a lie detector test make him look desperate and imbalanced. I would say he was an adrenalin junkie who got into for the wrong reasons.

    Facts here, please. Bethune did not get to shoot his arrows into dead whales to spoil the meat. 4 arrows were found because the Japanese whalers cut off the front of the Ady Gil where 100 were stored. Again, read Bethune on that.

  94. mac said

    3 times Watson says, “it is Pete’s call … it is Pete’s ship … it is up to Pete …” See for yourself and decide.

    Video is top right:

    http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-media/news-101005-2.html
    ———-
    But Watson in his book encourages activists to lie for the sake of good theater and TV coverage. Nobody believed his story about the bullet he pulled out of his vest a couple of years ago and then claiming the Japanese shot him. I think there’s a Japanese expression about there being no difference between mimikuso (earwax) and hanakuso (snot), which about sums it up for me.

    – A.

  95. 21st Century Schizoid Man said

    Ampontan: Isn’t it mekuso (eyewax) hanakuso (snot) wo warau?

    Mac: I am just possibly correcting Ampontan, I do not mean it!
    ———
    2csm: I heard some man several years ago talking about a stupid argument between two people who other people didn’t like much, and I think he said something about it being a battle between hanakuso and mimikuso, but I forget the exact words.

    – A.

  96. Duncan said

    Mac,
    I could not care less if you believe I am who I say I am. Unlike you, I am an honest person. I understand that honesty can be a foreign concept to someone like you that is so connected to such a deliberately dishonest organization. I remember one of your “brilliant” postings that accused me of being an employee of some whaling agency. If you really believe that then you are an idiot. The facts: I am a Navy veteran (with a DD-214 to prove it) that is offended each time I witness the Sea Shepherds violations of the laws of the sea and navigation rules. My veteran status is a fact that exists whether you choose to accept it or not. Another fact: I was first made aware of Sea Shepherd by my wife a few years ago. At that time I purchased items from Sea Shepherds online store and made a financial donation. You want to know something really cool Mac? All of my purchases were made with a credit card. Your struggles with your obvious mental handicap may not allow you to fully grasp what that last statement means so let me help you understand. IT MEANS THERE IS A RECORD OF MY PURCHASES AND DONATIONS TO SEA SHEPHERD. Still think I work for the Whaling agency or that I’m paid for my postings about the Sea Shepherd crimes? When it became clear to me that the Sea Shepherds are nothing but criminals I stopped supporting Sea Shepherd (as did everyone I know personally). Put another way – the lies, crimes, fake shootings, etc ended my support of that unethical and illegal organization.

    I am opposed to whaling but I am even more opposed to the Sea Shepherds than I am opposed to whaling. The Sea Shepherds are dishonest cowards that only attack the Japanese because they know the Japanese will not shoot them. Americans or Russians would have already killed some of the Sea Shepherds for trying to illegally board their vessels. That is why no one will ever see the Sea Shepherds use similar tactics with the Russians. The Japanese are well within their right to shoot anyone that attempts to illegally board their vessels when they are underway and I would fully support the Japanese if they shot Sea Shepherds the next time Sea Shepherds attempt to board their vessel. An extra benefit of the Japanese shooting illegally boarding Sea Shepherds? Paul Watson wouldn’t have to fake being shot anymore. You know, your basic win-win.

  97. mac said

    There was a case recently, in Scandinavia, of a whale apparently being hit and hooked with an explosive harpoon, then pursued on the cable for two hours before finally killed with a second explosive harpoon.

    Imagine I did the same to an elephant from the back of truck. Hit it was a harpoon that exploded inside its flesh. Towed it around for two hours as it fought to escape, lungs filling with its own blood, then finally pulled it in and hit it was a second explosive to the brain that killed it.

    Whether I was doing for money, to sell for burgers or pet food, or to “study it” scientifically (wink, wink), you’d be appalled and disgusted.

    The difference between snot, earwax and Paul Watson is that Paul Watson – despite any of his faults – saved 528 such deaths last year.

    Is that such a bad thing? (Funnily enough, Paul’s first big campaign was protect elephants from poachers in East Africa.)

    What have you ever done?

    To realise how the winds are changing regarding animal rights, see, e.g.:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703915204575103520836794314.html

    Japan is still in the dark ages over this one, of course. Even vivisectors don’t have to register.

  98. Duncan said

    Mac,
    You are a perfect example of why people really should stay in school and not use drugs. You say that Paul Watson claims to have saved 528 whales last year. Really? How did you arrive at such a specific number? Could it be that Paul Watson is giving himself credit for saving every whale that the Japanese were below quota last year? If so then your statement seems to suggest that whaling is easy; all the whalers have to do and put their vessels underway and they will be guaranteed to achieve quota. Here’s a flash for you: Several nations other than Japan participated in whaling last year and NONE OF THEM ACHIEVED QUOTA. Did the Sea Shepherds save those whales as well? Maybe Paul Watson should give himself credit for those as well? The truth, which understandably is a difficult concept for the Sea Shepherds, is that there is no guarantee that ANY commercial whalers of ANY country will be successful at finding enough whales to achieve quota. For Paul Watson to give himself full credit for Japan missing a quota that Paul had either no part, or a minimal part in just further demonstrates what a completely dishonest and narcissistic person he is.
    The saddest thing about the Sea Shepherds are the young people that want to do a good thing by saving whales but end up corrupt and dishonest because of Paul Watson’s disgraceful influence on them.

  99. mac said

    You make a good point that the statistic involved should be closely scrutinized but, in a sense, they do not really matter. The Whale War is a symbolic war for both parties, the elements of the Fisheries Agency and nationalists in Japan, and the environmentalist and conservationists.

    For the last 3 or 4 months, Sea Shepherd volunteers have been camped out at Taiji as peacefully observers of the annual dolphin slaughter than goes on down there, mostly to feed the marine park and aquarium industry.

    http://www.seashepherd.org/dolphins/cove-guardian-reports/

    The Nisshin Maru has recently set sail and in 4 weeks, this years Whale War fixture will start.

    I only discovered recently that the Nisshin Maru has no facilities to process whale onboard and so the Japanese whalers have gone back to the wasteful ways of the West dumping carcasses at sea in their bogus scientific research.

    Wouldn’t the world be a nicer place without?

    The stupidity of it all is the damage done to Japan’s international standing and reputation at the cost of vast tax subsidies to a dying industry. Likewise, down at Taiji, there are now a coast guard vessel, helicopters and police all at tax payers expense … for what exactly?

    Who wants to eat the stuff?

  100. Ecoutez said

    I’d feel better ethically about eating a Japanese whale than an American pig.

    But, I’m glad to see that both you and Ampontan agree that scientific research is “bogus.”

  101. Duncan said

    You say that it doesn’t matter that the Sea Shepherds make false statements about the actual number of whales they have saved? Really? Since naive people like Bob Barker and others, are making large contributions to Sea Shepherd BASED ON THOSE FALSE STATEMENTS then it does matter that the Sea Shepherd organization greatly exaggerates its impact and its success rate when it comes to saving whales. If the Sea Shepherds didn’t even go to the Southern Ocean this year the Japanese probably would not achieve quota. So stop lying about your role at “saving whales”. It is rancid BS and most people are getting sick of it.

    Also, for the record, I have never seen a group of more incompetent seamen than those with the Sea Shepherd organization. Are none of you idiots trained seamen? It absolutely amazes me that some of the stupid things that the Sea Shepherds have done has not resulted in some of the Sea Shepherds injuring or accidentally killing themselves. Instead of Paul Watson trying proclaim himself to hold a revered title such as “admiral” (he would never make admiral except to proclaim himself to be one) he should proclaim himself to be things that he actually is: An idiot and a coward. I dare you idiots to illegally board a Russian vessel. I would love to see the results of that little excursion. The Sea Shepherds are cowards that only attack the Japanese because the Japanese are peaceful and will not shoot you idiots. The United States is not that peaceful. We have been at war almost constantly since the 1940s. If the United States participated in whaling and you idiots tried to illegal board one of its vessels there would be dead Sea Shepherds floating in the Southern Ocean. I promise you that it would happen. Shooting first and asking questions later is 2nd nature to us. And every court would say the shooting was justified. The patience of the Japanese is amazing to the point that it is actually inappropriate patience. The Japanese do not know what weapons the Sea Shepherds have on them when they illegally board Japanese vessels and the Japanese do not know what retarded intentions you idiots have when you illegally board their vessels so THEY HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO SHOOT ANY SEA SHEPHERD THAT ILLEGALLY BOARDS THEIR VESSELS. I seriously hope the Japanese exercise that right this year.

    I am completely opposed to whaling and I would like to see legislation enacted that actually has teeth that can end whaling but the Sea Shepherds are NOT saving whales in spite of all the lies they tell to the contrary. Until such laws are passed I FULLY support the Japanese to do EVERYTHING NECESSARY TO KEEP YOU IDIOTS OFF OF THEIR VESSELS. Each illegal boarding endangers lives and should be dealt with far more harshly than the Japanese are currently dealing with it. Maybe if a few Sea Shepherds end up floating in the Southern Ocean then you will stop ramming vessels and illegally boarding Japanese ships.

  102. Connor said

    They are protected by the Human Right Convection on: Enviourment

  103. mai said

    that information is all BS and lies! if you watch the show you know they dont carry guns they are searched all the time, stink bombs are not weapons and they dont have weaponry on their ships!!!!! stupid japanese whalers need to stop killing whales!!!!

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