China’s got problems of its own
Posted by ampontan on Friday, September 23, 2011
MUCH of the discussion of China in the business and financial section of the American media these days consists of teeth-gnashing laments over their trade deficits with and indebtedness to the emerging global power. People have recently been made aware that the Chinese hold so much American government debt that interest payments on the debt will be large enough to completely fund the People’s Liberation Army by as early as 2015.
The view from Asia, however, offers a different perspective. Japanese journalist Miyazaki Masahiro provided a brief description of that view recently, and here it is in English.
*****
The dramatic change in Chinese trade patterns: The drastic decline in the trade surplus
The Chinese trade surplus is growing with the United States and the EU, but that country has a large deficit with resource-exporting countries. Their deficit with Australia is roughly equivalent to their recent surplus with the U.S.
China imports coal, natural gas, minerals, rare earth metals, and other natural resources from Australia. The unfavorable trade balance for China is about to reach $US 40 billion. They also have deficits with Canada, Brazil, and other resource-producing countries.
The Chinese import core parts, components, and high-tech products from Japan, Taiwan, and South Korea, and their deficit with those countries remains unchanged. It is close to $US 30 billion with South Korea alone. The trade deficit with Japan is said to be a constant, but it has somewhat improved to roughly $US 22 billion. Japan continues to import vegetables, grains, seafood, as well as processed food products from China.
Chinese foreign exchange reserves are several times greater than their trade surplus, and direct investment in the country amounts to more than $US 100 billion. The influx of speculative investment is also thought to be several times greater than the trade surplus.
Meanwhile, the trade surplus remains unchanged with the countries of the EU, particularly Great Britain, France, and Italy. The surplus with the U.S. is greater than $US 30 billion, and about $18 billion with India.
Overall, however, the pattern of rising national wealth fueled by trade surpluses is undergoing a dramatic change. Attention will be focused in the future on the contours of the curve in the distortion that occurs during the structural transition from an export-oriented nation to an import-dependent nation.
Regardless, the age in which China was the world’s factory with cheap labor is assuredly coming to an end.
(end translation)
*****
Meanwhile, Gordon Chang asks in Forbes: How can China save Europe when it’s defaulting on its own debt?
He explains:
About 85% of Liaoning province’s 184 financing companies defaulted on debt service payments in 2010 according to a report from the province’s Audit Office. The report also noted that 120 of these borrowers, de facto government agencies, operated at a loss last year.
Since 1994, provinces and lower-tier governments have not been permitted to issue bonds or borrow from banks. Despite the strict prohibition, their debt has skyrocketed as local officials incurred obligations through LGFVs, local government finance vehicles. The central government’s National Audit Office said these companies, at the end of last year, had taken on 10.7 trillion yuan of debt. No one, however, knows the true amount of LGFV indebtedness, and some have calculated the real amount to be more than double the official figure.
Due to a combination of circumstances:
China’s debt-fueled growth is slowing fast, probably faster than official GDP figures indicate…Xu Lin, a senior official at the National Development and Reform Commission, says there is no need to “panic,” but there are plenty of reasons to think that China’s economy is already landing hard. And a hard landing will soon cause LGFV defaults around the country, which will roil banks. Fitch early this month put China’s local-currency debt on downgrade watch due to concerns about bank asset quality and general concerns about financial stability.
*****
Then there’s the Chinese real estate bubble. Said the Wall Street Journal earlier this summer:
AFTER years of housing prices gone wild, China’s property bubble is starting to deflate.
That’s a relative term, of course:
Beijing has one of the most expensive real-estate markets in the world relative to the income of its citizens.
Calculations based on Soufun data show that in the opening months of 2006 an average-price new apartment in China’s capital would cost around $US100,000 — the equivalent of 32 years’ disposable income for the average resident.
By 2011, the average price had more than doubled to $US250,000, but relatively modest increases in income mean it would now take 57 years of saving for the average resident to cover the cost.
Why are falling prices a problem?
Residential prices are heading downward in some major cities, damping some undesired real-estate speculation but raising the prospect that the Chinese economy may slow more rapidly than anticipated with profound consequences for global growth.
Some countries have market risk, some have currency exchange risk, and some have inflation risk. As always with China, however, there is honesty risk:
A number of analysts think official data, which has continued to show a slight rise in prices, understate the slowdown as the government can affect the numbers by pressing developers to withhold or add high-value properties to the market depending on what it wants the data to show.
*****
Everyone in the United States and Europe sees and hears the Big Train coming round the bend, but those governments seem intent on finding ways to stay lashed to the tracks instead of fleeing or derailing the locomotive. Now, some people are taking notice that the Chinese might be tied to the same tracks themselves.
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Marellus said
Ampontan.
Here is another perspective. This was written in 2006, and sadly, the author has passed away. I have also reproduced and edited the entire text, because of so many eye-sores in the original.
toadold said
As stated you can’t trust mainland China’s statistics. However, as mentioned, the external indicators mentioned are indicating bad news. For example China is pulling back or copper purchases and the price of oil is actually dropping and the demographic bomb is starting to worry the head that fear the loss of the Mandate of Heaven.
South Korea and Japan still innovate and have copyright protection. China…..forget it.
A Chinese gentleman told me the feeling is starting to be one of entrapment. Every effort to think up a way to change the system meets economic, cultural, or political interests that fear any change. He says the examination system is based on memory not intelligence but if you try to put tests of creativity into the system you give the advantage to children of the wealthy who can afford better education in “creativity.” The poor see being able to memorize and barf back as within their means. So they end up stuck with it. The boat sinks but all fear move and rock it even to plug the leaks.
Harry said
“The Chinese had the advantage of watching what happened to the Japanese.“
And their property bubble is much bigger than ours.
不動産価格、1週間で1割超下落 中国経済、凋落の最終局面に
http://www.sankeibiz.jp/macro/news/110915/mcb1109150849031-n1.htm
http://www.sankeibiz.jp/macro/news/110915/mcb1109150849031-n2.htm
http://www.sankeibiz.jp/macro/news/110915/mcb1109150849031-n3.htm
【中証視点】中国不動産投資信託に危機、国内大手の資金繰り悪化
http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20110923-00000015-scn-cn
中国の地方債務8割が返済不可能か―2012年に危機?
http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20110922-00000007-scn-cn
“We have the world’s largest single source of power outside the sun (for those of you who don’t know, I refer to the Three-Gorges Dam).“
They ignore risks of collapse and environmental costs.
“They established the so-called state-owned enterprises (SOE) where they would compete in the world economy.“
They crowd out small private enterprises that provide jobs and make or break the economy.
資金・原材料・人材の不足による中小企業の倒産、中国北部にも蔓延―中国メディア
http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20110920-00000014-rcdc-cn
“China has a virtually unlimited workforce.“
No, it does not.
“The Chinese population is somewhere between 1.7 and 1.9 billion people.“
So, their most basic stat is wrong.
“We’ll see a new baby-boom in the maternity wards of China over the next 90 to 120 days.“
NO.
“The people are happy, the leaders are happy,“
There are riots everywhere.
中国・広東省で土地収用に抗議し、村民1000人が暴動
http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20110924-00000000-scn-cn
中国の都市と農村の貧富差は世界最大=都市部重視の経済・社会政策に原因―中国誌
http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20110921-00000023-rcdc-cn
That Market Analyst knows nothing about China.
Marellus said
@Harry
Indeed, but their bust won’t lead to deflation like in Japan.
Inflation is a more likely (and better) outcome.
Then you must say that environmentalism is scientifically rigorous, socially fair and is not inimical to economic growth. And when you have demonstrated this, try and convince the Chinese. I’m sure they’ll listen.
A Nobel Economist disagrees. And it’s not Krugman. Sorry.
But its cohort of 20-to-40-year-old-people is the largest in the world. It stands at 400 million people. And this cohort is educated. And this cohort is homogeneous in language. And this cohort is patriotic. The population of the US is about 400 million now. What can you tell me about their cohort of 20-to-40-year-old people ?
And yet they can throw their weight around :
Most population statistics are inferred via surveys. A sensus is needed.
Indeed. But the Chinese Government is not constrained by Human Rights in subduing them. And who would stop them ? Europe ? They need help financially. And the USA is getting there.
And you do ?!
How will you interpret this then ?
Or more anecdotally :
A thousand years ago China had the Sung Dynasty. It was a dynasty of commerce and innovation. Quite similar to the Han Dynasty a thousand years before that. This new dynasty of China will follow in their footsteps. A new Sung-type Dynasty then.
And Japan will head into the historic obscurity that is the Heian period, until a new type of Shogunate revitalizes the country.
—————
M:
Anyone who has paid attention to Japanese national elections for the past decade knows this is crap. “A board member of a Japanese government bank”? A Financial Ministry bureaucrat? Unless one knows who this man is, and what his views of government are, this is worthless.
The Americans haven’t seen it in 30 years, which is long enough in today’s world.
Harry’s right about the Chinese baby boom. They have similar demographic problems as others do, plus a one-child policy. As one commentator noted, “The West got old after it got rich. The Chinese will get old before they get rich.”
How does this make Japan different from any other country?
I’ve uploaded stuff here before about entire cities and shopping centers that people aren’t using, complete with videos. There are also suspicions that the Chinese are building fleets of cars and parking them unused.
This is f*cking hilarious. What traditional assumptions would those be? Global governance and social democracy don’t work? Political leadership requires competence?
I think they’ve already made up their minds. For them, I’m sure the green energy business is just another way to make money.
Not all of it is.
Not all of it is.
That’s only off by about 100 million.
This is worth reading on its own, but especially for the crack about Chimerica and the observation about the questions asked in the US presidential debate.
- A
toadold said
Harry
You are so right. That Three Gorges Damn is a scary thing. The rumor mill says the Chinese are worried about what they call “tofu” construction on it. It is showing cracks and they are having to patch it already. If the drought ends and you get a heavy rainfall upstream and then an earthquake there is a fear that it could break up. Kiss off the power generators and count up the bodies down stream if that happens.
Marellus said
Ampontan.
You didn’t go after Niall Ferguson or that Fogel fellow though. And yes, my stats were wrong on the USA. Mea Culpa . My thesis is this : China is grinding an axe, and Japan is a chicken that believes it can shed some weight by loosing its head. What’s yours then ?
————
M: No time to go after everyone. Not sure what your thesis means. Big government and big business may be sticking their necks out, but they people sure don’t want to. I don’t have a thesis as such, because there are too many known unknowns and unknown unknowns. Well, other than that the Chinese want to reassert their old regional hegemony and extend it this time.
- A
Marellus said
Ampontan.
And how must the leadership (in industry and government) of Japan respond to this ?
And how will the leadership (in industry and government) of Japan respond to this ?
I sense a dichotomy full of unknowns here.
But I think the situation is that those who must, will not … and those who will, must not … for compelling but frivolous reasons.
Harry said
“Inflation is a more likely (and better) outcome.“
When they are increasingly angry about it. All those real estate tycoons may like it. Others may revolt. There is a speculative bubble of graves. They bemoan the fact that life is hard and death is even harder.
Komatsu is now having trouble getting paid for excavator sales in China. Since local governments have no reason to stall the building spree, I suspect LGFVs have begun to fail.
If inflation speeds up, there is a risk of stagflation.Taiwanese electronics makers may replace Chinese workers with Japanese robots or get out of China. SMEs say their business conditions are worse now than in 2008.
I trust lay people in China and some foreign observers than that economist.
“And when you have demonstrated this, try and convince the Chinese. I’m sure they’ll listen.“
They are convinced and demonstrating against polluters and could get violent.
“This cohort is homogeneous in language.“
No.
“historic obscurity that is the Heian period“
Never heard of 国風文化? Try again.
Harry said
Toadold, I know of ”okara”construction, but ”tofu”may be a better word. Their officials tend to let old dams fail ”naturally”rather than fix or rebuild them, causing floods in rural areas. I want to believe that is not the case here, but I also hear that that huge dam may have caused landslides and even earthquakes. Their engineers opposed the project, but Beijing did not listen.
Marellus said
@Harry.
Here is the Heian period . And compare this with the with the Song Dynasty.
History comes in cycles, and the thousand year cycle is a powerful one. WD Gann was the first to notice this.
So there will be a repeat of the Song Dynasty in China, and Japan is headed towards a new Heian Period. And that means that China will prosper, and Japan will plod on into some kind of Kamakura Shogunate. But not for some time yet.
As to the rest of your economic polemics regarding China, there are three ways to deal with excessive debt in an economy :
1) Inflation.
2) Deflation.
3) An upward revaluation in the price of gold.
Whatever domestic debts the Chinese Govt has can be paid back in gold at a certain price. How will they do this ? They just tell the Central Bank to be the buyer-of-last-resort of gold at that inflated price. Any inflation can be sterilized by bond dealings then.
And China is buying gold.
What is Japan doing ?
——-
M: Harry is, IIRC, Japanese, so I don’t think you need to be uploading quotes from Wikipedia about the Heian period for him. Particularly ones that make bald assertions about events more than 1,000 years ago followed by (citation needed).
I also recommend you look at the Wikipedia editorial on the masthead of this page and read the John Derbyshire article at the link.
- A.
Marellus said
Ampontan.
You’re the reason they invented Maalox … I give up.
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