Royal on Japanese manga: Hoist by her own petard
Posted by ampontan on Monday, April 23, 2007
FOREIGN MINISTER TARO ASO has a suggestion for Segolene Royal, the Socialist candidate for president in France, according to this Japan Times article .
Royal criticized Japanese society in a book published in 1989 for its toleration of violence and pornography in manga and animations. She also apparently complained about sexism in manga to Mizuho Fukushima, the head of the Japanese Social Democratic Party (former Socialist Party) when the latter visited Paris in December.
Aso, well-known for his enjoyment of manga, suggested that Royal might broaden her reading of the comics and discover the diversity of the genre.
Actually, I have a different suggestion for Royal: Put a sock in it.
The only reason to get upset about violent or pornographic manga is if reading that material leads to sex crimes against women. Interpol (headquarted in France) keeps international crime statistics. One of these is the incidence of rape per 100,000 population.
This website listed some of those rape statistics by country for 2004.
The numbers for Japan? 1.78. The rate for France? 14.45.
Mr. Aso also suggested to reporters that they not react so much to comments from foreigners about Japanese culture.
“Why are you worried so much if someone in France makes this kind of remark?” Aso asked
Indeed. Particularly when the remarks betray such ignorance.
Buyo said
Don said
“The only reason to get upset about violent or pornographic manga is if reading that material leads to sex crimes against women”
Does that mean you have no problem with such manga being freely available to children? Or advertising them in trains?
ampontan said
“Does that mean you have no problem with such manga being freely available to children? Or advertising them in trains?”
That’s not what Royal is aiming at, is it?
Don said
I’d have to read Royal’s original comments to judge, which weren’t quoted in the article and don’t seem to be available in English online, so it’s difficult to put Aso’s comments in context. I don’t think criticisms of violent or pornographic imagery and sexism in manga are invalid per se, especially in a medium that is so ubiquitous and accessible, which is why I asked for clarification on your position. Sorry if I’m barking up the wrong tree.
Here’s the JT article you were looking for:
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20070421a9.html
ampontan said
Thanks for the link, Don. I have no problem with restricting access to that material, though I don’t know how accessible it is now anyway. I’m not in Tokyo and don’t have to ride trains.
My problem is with outright censorship, and with her trying to get involved in something that’s not her business to begin with. (A common failing of people in her party.)
I wonder how easy it would be for a 12-year-old in Paris to buy a copy of something written by the Marquis de Sade. And do we hear anyone in Japan complaining to the French about the content of those books?
Don said
Point taken. Enjoying your thought-provoking posts.
William said
The comments of Ms. Royal only reveal her ignorance. Since the crime rate is much lower in Japan than in France in almost every area, what kind of comics do they have?
In the 1960′s textbooks in French schools still showed Japanese using rickshaws! France is generally full of itself and very ignorant about the rest of the world. It is troubling that a candidate for the president of that country would make such comments, but I understand she has made other such ill-considered comments about things in other countries.
James A said
Well, they do have rickshaws here, but only as attractions for the tourists at places like Asakusa and Kamakura. Not as common modes of transportation.
Paul said
This is coming from a woman whose country’s political spectrum is so distorted that even the “conservatives” are socialists.
GARY said
of course rape statistics in Japan can’t be compared to countries like France! that’s because Japanese women are less forthcoming about them being raped than westerners!
this time, Ampontan, i think you just spit off some stats without taking account cultural context, just like the journalists you so often criticize.
ponta said
Do you have the statistics that shows Japanese women are less forthcoming about them being raped than westerners?
Or did you just spit off some craps based on your bias, just like the journalists criticized here?
bender said
Or did you just spit off some craps based on your bias, just like the journalists criticized here?
You’ve got that right! “Spitting against the sky”, an old Japanese proverb says.
Overthinker said
It is, however, a valid point: the incidence or actual rape does not necessarily have to be equal to the incidence of rape reports. Not only are there potential social differences, both in the case of the victims, and the police handling of the complaints, but also legal definitions of rape need to be clarified before any valid comparison can be made – what is “rape” in one country may not be in another.
ampontan said
Gary: If the rapes are unreported, then the information is only hearsay and anecdotal, is it not? I am not so sure that Japanese women these days are as hesitant about reporting those crimes than they might once have been. I am also not so sure that reporting the unreported would bring it up to the French total.
More importantly: These figures are off the top of my head, but they are in the ballpark, and they are out there. Roughly 70% of the rapes in Norway are committed by Muslims, who account for roughly 10% of the population. Because of Sharia law and tradition, rapes are unlikely to be frequently reported by Muslim women. (Rape is considered prohibited sex. The woman needs four adult male Muslim witnesses to prove her case. If unable to prove her case, she is liable to be charged with adultery–a capital crime.)
The Muslim population in France is higher than in Norway, and approaches 30% in some areas. We’ve already seen that young Muslim men in France don’t care much for obeying the law.
The Muslim population in Japan is negligible.
bender said
It is, however, a valid point: the incidence or actual rape does not necessarily have to be equal to the incidence of rape reports. Not only are there potential social differences, both in the case of the victims, and the police handling of the complaints, but also legal definitions of rape need to be clarified before any valid comparison can be made – what is “rape” in one country may not be in another.
You’re making a serious allegation here, Ueberdenker. You need more than that to state there’s more rape in Japan than is reported. If you get into that realm, I see no difference from the western media that likes to depict Japan as some funny house.
BTW, you remind me of how Clinton used to argue about his adventures.
Overthinker said
Nowhere at ALL did I state that “there’s more rape in Japan than is reported.” I stated that before dealing with such issues we need to CONFIRM that the reported rates and actual rates match, in any country. Get it right next time.
Aceface said
Wow.What’s with the heated discussion between you two guys?
“Not only are there potential social differences, both in the case of the victims, and the police handling of the complaints, but also legal definitions of rape need to be clarified before any valid comparison can be made – what is “rape” in one country may not be in another.”
I’m with Overthinker on this one(Sorry Bender).J-Police had tendency of showing reluctance in investigating rape allegation between husbands and wives or perhaps between lovers.Now it’s starts to change for domestic violence has becoming huge issue due to the rise of more sensitivity to women’s right among J-society.
I’ve sent a mail with a link to PDF introducing decline of serious crime caused by Japanese youth by Tokyo Univ.Prof Hasegawa Mariko(which seems to be blocked somehow) and her graph shows there has been a steadily decline in the sexual assault cases by youth in the past 40years,only except from a few years ago,there has been some rise.Partly because police is more focusing domestic violence than the past for above reasons.
ponta said
So what is the statistics about France to show that the incidence of rape reports in France is closer to the actual rape rate than in Japan?
Overthinker’s point seems to be that without examining the both cases you can not get the correct picture—the point taken.
But I say, for the essay such as this, the statistics shown on the website is sufficient enough to make the case.
The claim that Japanese report radically misrepresents the actual rate but French one relatively reflects the actual case is heavy assumption; the burden of proof lies upon the contender. To insist, without such an argument, that “because Japanese women are less forthcoming about them being raped than westerners!” ….take account cultural context” — it strongly suggests to me—- is just the reflection of the commenter’s bias.
Overthinker said
“The claim that Japanese report radically misrepresents the actual rate but French one relatively reflects the actual case is heavy assumption”
Precisely, which is why I did not make this assumption. In fact it could well be that the French rate is exaggerated (eg people claiming that consensual sex was rape as they decided they didn’t really want to in retrospect). Which is why it is so important to compare the statistical models and basis for comparisons.
It really depends on how deep Ampontan is willing to get, but one think I like about this site is that it often goes beyond the surface media representation to examine the reality, so in this case some commentary on the stats would be useful.
bender said
Get it right next time.
That’s quite sweet of you! However, you suggested that the statistics might be wrong, and then you changed your argument a bit after ponta made his.
Overthinker said
I did not suggest they were wrong, I said that there was a possibility they might be wrong, and that does not mean they are wrong, it means that their accuracy must first be determined. I said “the incidence or actual rape does not necessarily have to be equal to the incidence of rape reports”. That does not take a stand on whether the reported statistics are correct, or suggest that they are incorrect. Nor is suggesting that French figures could be higher than actual incidents a suggestion that they are in fact higher.
I have not changed my argument, which hasn’t even been an argument as such as I have yet to take a position between France and Japan on the accuracy of rape statistics. All I have done is note that the statistics need to be looked at carefully to ensure they are both accurate and comparable. “It could well be” means that “it is perfectly possible” not “it is very likely”.
ampontan said
Always a problem, trying to figure out where to stop and still keep it interesting. Thanks for the bouquet; trying to get beyond the surface is one of the reasons I do this.
Overthinker said
“Always a problem, trying to figure out where to stop and still keep it interesting.”
That’s where the comments come in I suppose – you can see what people are interested in and want to know more about.